[NickolasJames8] Somehow, Someway by Nickolas James

[NickolasJames8]

**This is the thread to discuss the Anthology Entry, Somehow, Someway**

 

Warning: Spoilers Ahead

[Graeme]

Nick has shown again that he's not afraid of tough topics.

 

One thing that struck me when I read this, and then re-read it, and that was how incredible selfish, unthinking and apparently uncaring the father's reaction was. He didn't think of his daughter's best interest -- something he acknowledges -- but instead left her to get himself under control. Unfortunately, it is also too true a reaction. Many people when they hear something shocking need time alone to assimilate the news, and that is sometimes the worst possible thing they could do. This was one of them. The father loves his daughter, but when she needed him there for her, he appeared to turn his back on her.

 

There is a reconciliation at the end, but I think that one unthinking act is going to haunt their relationship for some time to come.

 

Thanks, Nick, for another thought provoking story.

[Ieshwar]

Greatly written! I don't know what to say! Such a mature approach to a difficult subject matter. But what is striking is the realistic reactions and characters. It was amazing! A good writer is one who moulds himself into his characters, absorbing their way of thinking and attitude. And you wrote about the father so well... I have to applaud you!

 

I have read abour rapes from the victims POV but from a father POV, it's pretty original and you did justice to it. I find your writing style quite professional too.

 

I'm requesting for a signed copy for your first book! (Not joking)

 

Ieshwar

[C James]

This story packs one hell of an emotional punch, and I found the characters and their actions dead-on accurate.

 

Nick, you took an a very, very difficult subject, and you did it superbly. Well done!!!

CJ

[Bondwriter]

Another emotionally loaded situation and a family that has to undergo a terrible ordeal. It's like Bob has to face reality in the harshest way. As usual, the storytelling is clear, simple and gets the narrator's personality well-portrayed.

[Camy]

When I read Nick's 'Time in a bottle' I didn't know what to say. He crafted a rich tapesty of four generations of family life complete with betrayal, death, pain and ultimately forgiveness. Not something I could ever do, and to be honest not something I enjoyed reading. Don't get me wrong it was well written, but it was a painful read.

 

With 'Somehow, Someway' he's done it again. This time taking rape as the central theme for the emotional destruction of a family. I'm not a father (surprise, surprise), and we don't have guns over this side of the pond: but if I was, and we did, I'm not so sure I'd have been as controlled as Bob.

 

I like stories about butterflies, elves and the weird. 'Somehow, Someway' wasn't, so I can't say I liked it. I can say it was well written, powerful, and I read it more than once.

 

Camy

[NickolasJames8]

Thanks everyone. I'd be lying if I said I gave this story much thought before I wrote it. I wasn't sure what I was going to do for the anthology, but I said I was gonna contribute, so I had to write something. This is what came out.

I knew it would be a risky thing not to have some kind of gay element in the story, and to be honest, I almost made Michelle a lesbian who was coming out. In the end, though, I didn't think it was a really original idea, so I decided to take a chance. Maybe it wasn't a really popular thing, and I'm sure a lot of people read it and thought WTF?? but I'm really proud of the end result of my twenty minutes of hard work

[Graeme]

Personally, I don't think it's a risky thing to not have a gay element in the story. What was risky was dealing with a very emotional topic like rape. You handled it well, I think, by choosing to do it from the father's point of view, because it showed up the flaws in how he tried to deal with it.

[CarlHoliday]

When I first read this story I fully expected Michelle to be a lesbian, but was relieved when that didn't pan out. That would've been too obvious, too trite. As a father, who has faced family tragedy (albeit not as drastic as this family), this story struck home, burned a hole in my heart, and made me look at my own reactions in the past.

 

And, yet, I was troubled by the father's reaction to his daughter's tragedy, his need to make it a family tragedy when it really was all about the daughter. She needed his comfort and understanding, but he could only think of how this even was affecting them as a group; or, worse yet, him as a father.

[Conner]

I hate rape stories.

 

As for the father, I will rarely fault a human being for having a human reaction. Yes, his initial behaviour did make it about himself. In a perfect world, he would have done otherwise. His rage did seem to focus on the man that committed this horrific act. Beneath the surface, though, there was perhaps a greater rage toward himself for not having protected his daughter.

 

Similarly, I found it only natural for the father to worried about whether his family would pull through this tragedy. It can be argued, successfully I believe, that it was the daughter who saved her father in this instance. That's ok for me too.

 

Conner

[Graeme]

As for the father, I will rarely fault a human being for having a human reaction. Yes, his initial behaviour did make it about himself. In a perfect world, he would have done otherwise.

Maybe it's too obvious and hence no one has commented on it, but when I read the story, I naturally thought about the parallel situation when a child tells a parent that they're gay. The parent's initial reaction can be quite similar to that of the father in the story -- shock and an immediate withdrawal to regroup, but the child can take it as rejection.

 

As I said in my review, it's a very human reaction, and I think it's useful for gay teenagers to be aware of it. They need to wait until their parents are over that initial shock before they find out their parents' true reaction to the news.

[NickolasJames8]

Personally, I don't think it's a risky thing to not have a gay element in the story. What was risky was dealing with a very emotional topic like rape. You handled it well, I think, by choosing to do it from the father's point of view, because it showed up the flaws in how he tried to deal with it.

 

Thanks...honestly, right up until I got ready to send it off to CJ, I wasn't even sweating the whole rape/no gay theme part. Then I got nervous and sweated CJ to read it to be sure it was okay for the anthology.

 

When I first read this story I fully expected Michelle to be a lesbian, but was relieved when that didn't pan out. That would've been too obvious, too trite. As a father, who has faced family tragedy (albeit not as drastic as this family), this story struck home, burned a hole in my heart, and made me look at my own reactions in the past.

 

And, yet, I was troubled by the father's reaction to his daughter's tragedy, his need to make it a family tragedy when it really was all about the daughter. She needed his comfort and understanding, but he could only think of how this even was affecting them as a group; or, worse yet, him as a father.

 

I'm kinda glad it came across that way. Bob has a lot of flaws as a person, and I was trying to get that across. I mean, if he reacted that way to her being raped, I wonder what he would have done if she'd have told them she was gay

 

I hate rape stories.

 

As for the father, I will rarely fault a human being for having a human reaction. Yes, his initial behaviour did make it about himself. In a perfect world, he would have done otherwise. His rage did seem to focus on the man that committed this horrific act. Beneath the surface, though, there was perhaps a greater rage toward himself for not having protected his daughter.

 

Similarly, I found it only natural for the father to worried about whether his family would pull through this tragedy. It can be argued, successfully I believe, that it was the daughter who saved her father in this instance. That's ok for me too.

 

Conner

 

Thanks Conner....I love your perspective on it. I did try to keep Michelle strong for her dad at the end of the story. That's where I wanted him to draw his strength

 

 

Maybe it's too obvious and hence no one has commented on it, but when I read the story, I naturally thought about the parallel situation when a child tells a parent that they're gay. The parent's initial reaction can be quite similar to that of the father in the story -- shock and an immediate withdrawal to regroup, but the child can take it as rejection.

 

As I said in my review, it's a very human reaction, and I think it's useful for gay teenagers to be aware of it. They need to wait until their parents are over that initial shock before they find out their parents' true reaction to the news.

 

 

Well considering that I was playing with the idea of having her come out to her parents, the reaction would have been good for either scene (for the story not as a reaction irl). I can actually see someone like Bob having a hard time accepting his daughter as a lesbian. Of course, that would have been up to me in the end, but as a character, he strikes me as a little bit homophobic.

[Graeme]

Well considering that I was playing with the idea of having her come out to her parents, the reaction would have been good for either scene (for the story not as a reaction irl). I can actually see someone like Bob having a hard time accepting his daughter as a lesbian. Of course, that would have been up to me in the end, but as a character, he strikes me as a little bit homophobic.

I remember reading that fathers tend to have the most trouble accepting that their daughter is a lesbian. This was a purely statistical report and didn't try to give reasons, but your story gives a hint of one possible reason -- they just can't see their daughter as anything except their little girl. Society has conditioned them to accept -- eventually -- that they will meet a guy and move on, but they haven't had that conditioning for their little girl to meet another girl.

 

Is he homophobic in the true sense, or would it only be his daughter that he would be homophobic with?

 

Just speculation.

[NickolasJames8]

I remember reading that fathers tend to have the most trouble accepting that their daughter is a lesbian. This was a purely statistical report and didn't try to give reasons, but your story gives a hint of one possible reason -- they just can't see their daughter as anything except their little girl. Society has conditioned them to accept -- eventually -- that they will meet a guy and move on, but they haven't had that conditioning for their little girl to meet another girl.

 

Is he homophobic in the true sense, or would it only be his daughter that he would be homophobic with?

 

Just speculation.

 

I look at Bob as someone who thinks he's not homophobic, but when faced with accepting any gay, lesbian or transgedered person, not just his daughter, he'd have a problem with it. He strikes me as being against gay marriage.

 

Oooh, so I just got a message from someone at another site who said she didn't think this story was tragic enough (that's what she was asking for). So here's a question: would this story be categorized as tragic? If so, why? If not, why?

[Conner]

I remember reading that fathers tend to have the most trouble accepting that their daughter is a lesbian. This was a purely statistical report and didn't try to give reasons, but your story gives a hint of one possible reason -- they just can't see their daughter as anything except their little girl. Society has conditioned them to accept -- eventually -- that they will meet a guy and move on, but they haven't had that conditioning for their little girl to meet another girl.

 

Is he homophobic in the true sense, or would it only be his daughter that he would be homophobic with?

 

Just speculation.

 

 

I must say that I find that statistic quite unusual. Meaning, of course, that I would have expected fathers to be more troubled over a gay son. You know, `chip off the old block`and `carrying on the proud family name`and all that. There`s a whole lot of conditioning that goes on there too. It would indeed be interesting to explore the reasoning behind this choice.

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that fathers would be troubled by the fact that there would be no man in their lives to look after them. Conditioning :wacko: Maybe, maybe not. It`s stereotyping fathers, I guess, but that`s ok when it supports my pov.

 

Conner

[Graeme]

Oooh, so I just got a message from someone at another site who said she didn't think this story was tragic enough (that's what she was asking for). So here's a question: would this story be categorized as tragic? If so, why? If not, why?

 

The situation is tragic, but the reader is at least two steps removed from it, because Bob is reporting the tragedy, not living it.

 

I must say that I find that statistic quite unusual. Meaning, of course, that I would have expected fathers to be more troubled over a gay son. You know, `chip off the old block`and `carrying on the proud family name`and all that. There`s a whole lot of conditioning that goes on there too. It would indeed be interesting to explore the reasoning behind this choice.

The statistic came from a book published by an ex-PFLAG president. We borrowed it from our local library at the time I came out to my wife, to see if it would help.

[NickolasJames8]

I must say that I find that statistic quite unusual. Meaning, of course, that I would have expected fathers to be more troubled over a gay son. You know, `chip off the old block`and `carrying on the proud family name`and all that. There`s a whole lot of conditioning that goes on there too. It would indeed be interesting to explore the reasoning behind this choice.

 

If I were to hazard a guess, I would say that fathers would be troubled by the fact that there would be no man in their lives to look after them. Conditioning :wacko: Maybe, maybe not. It`s stereotyping fathers, I guess, but that`s ok when it supports my pov.

 

Conner

 

I would think that they'd rather have their daughters be gay so that there wouldn't be a man to mistreat her....idk. Of course, it could be that he doesn't like the idea because a lot of guys have lesbiana fantasies

[NickolasJames8]

The situation is tragic, but the reader is at least two steps removed from it, because Bob is reporting the tragedy, not living it.

The statistic came from a book published by an ex-PFLAG president. We borrowed it from our local library at the time I came out to my wife, to see if it would help.

 

 

I guess I never thought of it that way. I mean, in that sense, it comes off as rather selfish on his part because even though he's heartbroken for his daughter, he pretty much only describes the pain he experienced and not that of Michelle, the one who was truly victimized.

[Conner]

I would think that they'd rather have their daughters be gay so that there wouldn't be a man to mistreat her....idk. Of course, it could be that he doesn't like the idea because a lot of guys have lesbiana fantasies

 

A father's role, as I see it, in terms of his daughter, is to be the man that he would have her marry.

 

Conner

[Graeme]

The statistic came from a book published by an ex-PFLAG president. We borrowed it from our local library at the time I came out to my wife, to see if it would help.

Found the book: Something to Tell You. It has a foreword by an ex-PFLAG president, rather than being written by one. My memory isn't what it used to be like... at least not what I remember it to be like

[Conner]

I look at Bob as someone who thinks he's not homophobic, but when faced with accepting any gay, lesbian or transgedered person, not just his daughter, he'd have a problem with it. He strikes me as being against gay marriage.

 

Well, Nick, you do have me at a disadvantage, given you wrote the story. I can only present the evidence before me.

 

*adjusts his white wig with the curls on the side recently purchased for just this purpose*

 

My Lords, allow me to put before you the following quotes extracted from the impugned story.

 

When my daughter was born, I remember holding her in my arms and promising her that I

[Bondwriter]

Maybe it wasn't a really popular thing, and I'm sure a lot of people read it and thought WTF?? but I'm really proud of the end result of my twenty minutes of hard work

Darn, I hat having my nose rubbed in my... for I never ever will be able to write a good story in so little time.

 

Coming after the discussion, there's not much to add. I didn't feel any problem with not having a gay character. Your "family father" voice rings true, and all fathers don't have gay kids. Bob doesn't come across as someone who'd be open to anything besides traditional choices for his daughter, but it's funny to see how you speculated about his homophobia (I didn't think one minute of this when I read the story).

 

I agree with Graeme, the rape situation is reported, so you see it through the eyes of a father, and once you learn about it it's over, it's not like a "real" graphic rape scene.

[Graeme]

"Thank you, my dear learned friend, for such a fine summation of the situation. Members of the jury, how do find the defendant -- the father of Michelle -- homophobic or not homophobic."

 

"Not homophobic, your honour."

 

"Thank you. The defendant is hereby released, and the aformentioned author shall be fined a total of one chapter of the story of his choice, to be delivered to this forum within one month, for his scurrilous slander."

[NickolasJames8]

Yikes!!!! Ok, I'll start serving my sentence right here

[Bondwriter]

I'd say, your honor, the court is lenient. Condemning the defendant to one chapter within a month is like condemning Bill Gates to a $10,000 fine. Though for the ordinary man it may seem high, it is not much for someone who publicly confessed knocking a 4,000-word chapter in one hour and an anthology story in 20 minutes. And I'd suggest your court holds in Salem, Massachusetts, where these individuals should be judged.