Silly season polling. C James consistently claims he doesn't use cliffhangers, while he claims that Shadowgod is the King of Eeeevil Cliffhangers (see the previous survey where it looks like the majority of voters agree with him), and that he thinks my latest story has a really nasty cliffhanger.

Let's see what everyone else thinks.

Three votes so far. 33.33333% of the voters seem to be CJames' minions.

Hah! I say CJ has already voted. *laughing madly* Who else would say that CJ has to cliffhangers? Joke of the year!

Anyway CJ is the most evil of course. He makes us pine (like the end of this Chapter of LTMP) Haha!

And of course, Graeme has no cliffhangers at all. I have read New Brother but each time a chpater ended, he gave me another. How sweet, Graeme! And of course, there're no cliffahngers in short stories.

Shadowgod... I have read only his short stories. (sorry) but this proves that he never uses cliffhangers.

No, CJ, only you are the evil one here!

Ieshwar

Echidna!! Is this another attempt to steal for yourself Shadowgod's precious title ( King of Eeeevil Cliffhangers )?

What Graeme is failing to mention is that his currents Story, "Heart of the Tree", has the central character in dire danger of being literally chapped to bits! This has been an ongoing threat, so the story is just chock full of Cliffangers! We won't even mention (well, yes, I will) poor, sweet aunt Cynthia, who suffered one lulu of a cliffhanger!@

So, it's either a choice of voting for Shadowgod, or Graeme; I'll let the readers decide.



I suspect an antipodean conspiracy!



Ieshwar!
Most everyone knows that I never use cliffhangers!

And Graeme does so use cliffhangers.. And how could you possibly think I'm evil... My stories are all sweetness and light!

And Iseshwar, if you want to read a really good story, try Shadowgod's Living in Surreality, and take a close look when you do at Ch 26, then you'll come back and vote for Shadowgod, guaranteed. Or maybe Graeme.

Okay guys and gals.

I think it is about time that we seriously consider having an intervention with CJ .

CJ, please know that we all love you and care for you in a way that can't be explained . We want you to not feel the internal strife and turmoil that your currently putting yourself through. The first step for recovering from a problem, is admitting you have a problem. Once you do this, you can begin to heal.

So, we beg you, we implore you, to say these four words:

I write evil cliffhangers

Once you say these words for the first time, we can get you on the road to recovery. In twelve easy steps, we can all support you in writing beautiful chapters without the need to finish them with a cliffhanger.

It is always easier to blame others for our weaknesses, and to deny that we have a weakness. But all of us, will combine our efforts to help you realize that you can change. You will change. You need to change.

Just remember, four words will put you on the path of recovery.



Steve

Ack!!!!!

But Steve... I never, ever use cliffhangers!

In fact, I can prove my aversion to them! In FTL, after Chris blew up the Sheriff's house, I took great care to end the chapter with him almost safe... Had I ended it anywhere else, it would have been a cliffhanger... This, therefor, proves that I avoid hangovers!

You avoidance of hangovers isn't being discussed. It is your use of cliffhangers that is the topic of conversation

As an example of a cliffhanger, what about the scene where Eric has staked Chris and Steve out in the hot desert sun, and left them to die? The chapter ends with no sign of rescue and Chris passing out. How can that not be a cliffhanger?

Oooopss... Well, Shadowgod is also the King of Eeeevil Hangovers, so it sort of relates?

Actually, Graeme, I'll agree with you there; if I did indeed end a chapter with Chris passing out, then that would indeed be a cliffhanger.
However, if I did not, then it proves MY point that I avoid 'em.

Hint: FTL 22: "Fun in the Sun", ended with the words;



Chris didn't pass out until early in Ch 23.

Thank you for proving, once again, that I avoid cliffhangers.

Okay, I misremembered the point he passed out. Everything else still applies, and I think that is enough for it to qualify as a cliffhanger -- just not as bad a cliffhanger as if the chapter had ended with Chris passing out

Now, now CJ, you are showing all the classic signs of denial. Your first off denying that you use cliffhangers, and I do believe the majority of people tend to disagree. Second, your trying to deflect the blame by minimizing the impact your problem is causing by trying to justify it. And last, your trying to blame others, like poor innocent Shadowgod .

Once thing I have to commend Steve (Shadowgod) on, was he fully admitted the LiS26 ended in a cliffhanger. He was man enough to admit that he left us hanging. Now, I know it is in you to summon the fortitude to do the same.

Remember, we all love you, and are doing this only in your best interest.

Don't make us take the next step, which is tough love.

Steve

I don't see it as a cliffhanger at all. Eric was leaving, and the guys were unharmed, just soaking up a few rays, working on their tans.
Eric even said "Have a nice day..." Now, come on, what kind of a cliffhanger has "have a nice day" in it?

Of course, it would have been a cliffhanger had I ended it when Chris passed out... But I resisted Shadowgod's influence and didn't do it.

BTW, when I sent the chapter to Shadowgod for Beta, I added a lot of spaces after Chis passed out, and had just the words "The End" in there.



Steve! What must I do to convince you? Shadowgod is the King of Eeeeevil Cliffhangers and yes, he did sort of admit that LiS 26 was a cliffhanger, though how could he not?

As for any that MIGHT appear in my stories, think it through... Shadowgod is the Anonymous Beta Reader. He often inserts things into the chapters. He's the King of Eeeeevil Cliffhangers .. So I'll leave you to figure out where any such cliifies might come from...

Speaking of denial, you will note that Shadowgod has yet to fully embrace his title? So I think an intervention is definitely called for there, for Shadowgod...

We might need one for Graeme, too; he seems to deny his own penchant for wicked cliffhangers (Like leaving his central character about to be rendered limb from limb).

Ack !!!

What is going on????? Somehow CJ used his hypnotic eyes to influence a couple of unsuspecting readers to not vote for him, and to vote for Shadowgod!!

I knew somehow CJ would fix this poll .

I've merely been getting the word out about this nefarious poll. I'm just astonished that seven people thing I actually use cliffhangers! The Echidna's propaganda must be more effective than I'd thought...

Propaganda? What propaganda? I haven't even advertised the poll -- CJ has been doing that, not me! All I'm doing is asking questions.....

Ahhh, but you have been claiming that I use cliffhangers.. That's propaganda!

As you have been claiming for me.. whats good for the goat is good for the ... herd?? Have we decided on that yet??

ps might as well add my vote since its up right??

ACK!!!! But you DO use cliffhangers... Not even you can deny that LiS 26 was one lulu of a cliffhanger.

And i see how you voted! I knew the vote totals before you did, and I see them now! I think you're in denial... you are, after all, the
King of Eeeeevil Cliffhangers

No you didnt I hit show results and it showed me them, SO I knew in advance how the vote was going...

So you haven't voted yet? Cool! You will, I'm sure, want to vote for yourself in the first two questions...

I'm sure Shadowgod is too modest to vote for himself too much. He'll probably only vote for himself once -- maybe in the last poll....

..........Well CJ, I see the mob giving you a rough time, so I voted for you to lift your spirits!

Hey, Way to Go Benji

It appears you have lifted CJ's spirits by voting for CJ in question one and two, unsure who you voted for in three though

Steve

ACK! I don't know how you're doing it, but the side accusing me of using cliffies is pulling ahead! ARGH!

And worse, I'm being accused of using worse cliffies that Shadowgod himself! That's preposterous! He's not the
King of Eeeeevil Cliffhangers
for nothing, you know!
Humph!


Ummm, I hope you only voted for me in question #3; one and two are there only to set me up for defamation the the dark and prickly forces from down under...



ACK! Why won't anyone believe me: Shadowgod is the King of Eeeeevil Cliffhangers (confirmed as such by Graeme's own poll) so therefor it stands to reason he, and he alone, should be voted for in the first two polls.

What hath the Echidna wrought?

Emperors outrank Kings. Maybe this is a sign that we should be acclaiming C James as the Emperor of Eeeevil Cliffhangers? I can feel another poll coming on...

Graeme, has it escaped your attention that there are no cliffhangers so far in LTMP? That sort of torpedoes your claims, I think.

Damn...FTL has soooo nasty cliffhangers that I clearly voted for CJ!!

Not even Shadowgod leaves his heroes to cook under the sun!!

The last chapter was a blatant cliff-hanger. Sorry, but this is a fact.

And let's not, LET'S NOT forget the UK contender, Camy, who has some cliff-hangers that rival CJ's AND Shadowgod's. His latest chapter makes it clear.

Then, the question is: Is there a cliff-hanger epidemic around here?

if there is, I'm not involved...

But they were essentially unharmed at that point, just working on their tans, and Eric even said "Have a nice day". How can it be a cliffhanger with "Have a nice day"?



Now, now, Bondwriter, you can't say the last chapter of LTMP was a cliffhanger; by a definition, a cliffhanger has to leave the protagonists in major peril. Uncertainty as to whether or not they kissed hardly qualifies.

This is why the next-to-last chapter of FTL wasn't a cliffhanger; either Steve was dead, which would not be a cliffhanger, or he wasn't dead becuase the shot that saved him had ALREADY been fired before the end of the chapter.

Now, for an example of a real cliffhanger, I give you LiS 26! That was a real one!

And I'm very much looking forward to reading Camy's latest chapter of Serpah, hopefully sometime today.

Edit to add; just saw shadowgod's post denying any involvment with a cliffhanger epidemic. This is veeery interesting... Id do indeed notice an increase in cliffhangers since Shadowgot came to GA, and I have indeed heard rumors that he is running a secret cliffhanger school.. Hmmm...

You do realize by that logic 26 was not a cliffhanger either right? Either he was or he wasn't so no real cliffhanger. Granted I could have been really evil and cut the chapter just as the bike went sideways. That would have been worse. Ya know sorta like having the sound of a gun shot pierce the air and having steve's (not me though he was probably wishing ) body slump to the sand.

ACK!!!

Now, now Shadow, that's not true!!! You ended LiS 26 with hints that the character was dead... They were also heavy at the crash scene itself.

And just becuase Steve's lifeless body (And no, I don't wish it was you! Blackheart had his motorcycle crash and ended up addled, after all slumped to the sand, covered with fresh blood and gore, does not necessarily mean anything bad had happened!

In fact, wasn't it you yourself who said that as the shot that saved him had already occured, it wasn't really a cliffhanger? I know I can find that e-mail if I look...

Why would I say that if I am all about a secret cliffhanger school?? I may have posed my hopes in an email but I would surely not make any assumptions on your story line.

And there were clear indications Jacob was alive at the end of 26 his eyes were open as he got put into the ambulance.

Not at all. Firstly, there are chapter endings in LTMP that some people would consider to be cliffhangers. Personally, I would agree with you, but then I have a high cliffhanger-definition threshold. Other people, however, have a lower threshold and would consider that there have been at least one or two cliffhangers.

However, the statement was not about your current story, but about your writing overall. The cliffhangers in FTL are more than adequate to make you a contender for the title....

I've always believed that you've had a different definition of a cliffhanger to the rest of us, and now I have proof!

My definition of a cliffhanger is not the one defined above. My definition is where a chapter ends in a situation that leaves the reader desperately wanting to know what happens next, because the chapter ended with a large amount of unresolved immediate tension. Sometimes that will mean the protagonists are in major peril, but in other cases it could be a surprise situation that needs an urgent explanation, but the explanation isn't presented until the next chapter.

<Cough>!!!

I'll merely quote the proof from the chapter itself; these atr the last lines of the last two scenes with Jacob in them;




Now, considering Jacob's scene (the last we see of him in the chapter) closes with the words "one last and final time."
I'd say it looks like he's not going to make it. You also gave him the symptoms of collapsed lungs in BOTH lungs; if that's what he had, he'd very likely die en-route to the hospital.

So, I do hereby declare and proclame; this was the Mother of all Cliffhangers!


(and excellently done; of that, there can be no doubt. )

And BTW, that "last and final time." phrase fits perfectly; very evocative, and part of why I consider you to be the mater of evocative wording, along with being King of Eeeeevil Cliffhangers Your chapters are full of rich and descriptive words and phrases,
so, don't think it's only the cliffhangers I aim to honor you for.




I'm sure glad we're having this conversation now, and not a few weeks from now, but yes, I do admit there might, just possibly, be a cliffhanger in FTL. But I can't be sure; if it's there, the only way I can think of that it could have got there is that Shadowgod slipped it in during the beta... (He does love cliffhangers, you know... )

And okay, OTHER than FTL, you won't see any cliffhangers in my currently posted stories. We can agree on that, right?

Actually, no, we can't agree on that. The use of the word "won't" implies that I'm agreeing that I will not see any cliffhangers in LTMP, and since that story is not concluded, I can't agree I won't see any cliffhangers in it. All I'll concede is that I haven't seen any so far.

Oh, and I noticed that Shadowgod is abdicating his cliffhanger throne. It's now open for C James!

Ahhh, well, yes, like leaving the central character about to be rendered limb from limb, literally about to be hacked to bits?



Ahh, good point on LTMP: What I meant was, in the POSTED stories and chapters, so of course, anything beyond Ch 9 would not count on the cliffhanger issue. Can we agree on that? Sounds like we're pretty much in agreement.

And WHAT? Where, exactly, did Shadowgod say that?

Have a look at his title -- it no longer says "Fossil?"

ACK!!!!!!!! Oh no, he wouldn't!!! Surely he won't give up his title?!?!!?

Fossil!! How could you?

And BTW, are we in agreement, that we were refering only to my posted stories and chapters, and that anything after LTMP 9 would, of course, not count regarding cliffhangers, becuase, of course, you haven't seen them yet?

Since you insist, I will state, for the record, that up to the posting of chapter 9 of LTMP, there have not been any chapter endings in that story I considered to be a cliffhanger.

Others may disagrree, of course. Chapter 3 ended with an interesting question, and chapter 7 ended with Brandon running off after Gabe. The ending of chapter 9 has also caused some controversy, as it is not definite to all the readers that Brandon and Chase have actually kissed....

But..But.. I've never seen more eeevil cliffhangers than the ones in FTL.

(that may be due to the fact that I've not read Shadowgod's story)

*runs off to read it*

The BeaStKid

But I never use cliffhangers! If there are any in FTL, it must be becuase Shadowgod slips them in during the beta...


Seriously, give Living in Surreality a try, it is one heck of a superb story. Also, to get a taste of what the rest of us went through with chapter 26, just make yourself stop reading for five minutes at the end of that chapter, which you will find very hard to do.

,..........Humm, no real KISS either!!

I'll add my recommendation. I read the first 14 chapters one weekend, and then had to wait a couple of weeks before I could find the time to read the second 14 chapters. That's what started these polls. Since CJ is so perverse as to suggest he doesn't use cliffhangers, I'm also being perverse by insisting that I didn't find any cliffhangers in Living in Surreality. I just clicked on the link for the next chapter -- no cliffhanger in sight It's a great story, though -- CJ and I both agree on that

Okay, just read the first 4 chapters of LIS and I must say that even though they do not fit in CJ's definition, they do so in mine which is in line with Graeme's definition of cliffhangers. But then again, I've seen (or read) worse, so I'll let them pass. Still have to read the whole story to pass judgement id it really contains worse cliffies than FTL.

Till then, you're the King of eeevil cliffies for me, CJ!!



The BeaStKid

P.S
From what I've read till now, LIS is turning out to be one helluva story!

Well, we agree that LiS is one helluva good story!

And sorry, but there is no possible way (even if that wasn't allready Shadowgod's perpetual title) that I could be king of something I never use.

Just wait until you get to Shadowgod's Lemonade cliffie! You'll see... He's STILL got us dangling over the abyss on that one!

CJames, I'm getting quite concerned by you becoming the Utterly Unbeatable King and Ruler of the LIS Spoiler (not to mention the Prince of Pincushions), if you try so much to demonstrate you're right and end up giving away the scarce surprises and twists in the plot.

What makes the value and interest of LIS isn't the plot as much as the style, the language and the character development.

Of course, a few things happening caused quite an uproar in the readership, but let's leave prospective readers unaware of how this all unfolds.

ACK! But, but, but... You seem bound and determined to get me made into a pincushion by the Echidna!

I didn't say what, or where, the infamous Lemonade cliffie was!

Personally, I disagree; I find the plot of LIS to be very important, though I share your love for the excellent style, the language and the character development.

A good story has all those elements. A reader will have their own preference on what they enjoy the most, but I think we'll all agree that Living in Surreality is an excellent all round story.

Absolutely agreed!!! It really is excellent. Even the eeeevil cliffhangers added an air of suspense.