Hi everyone,
Well, considering the other two polls it seemed only natural to make this one too.
Actually, this one has the most relevance to me personally. My last boyfriend was in the closet and that's the number one reason it didn't work out.
The whole thing really confused me. Basically I thought I was being really patient and not pressuring him at all, but apparently the stress, and the dishonesty he felt as a result were too much. I guess the biggest problems were that we couldn't go out in public (at least not in his area) because he was worried people would see, and I couldn't go to his house because his parents didn't know. Actually I know alot of that was my fault... I was kinda reluctant to meet his family and pretend to be a "friend" because I'm just not comfortable lying to people's families about something like that. I guess I would have if we'd kept dating and he'd really wanted me too *shrug*
Anyway, as a result I've really been debating whether or not I should just stay away from closeted people altogether (romantically). The main thing was his feelings about it not mine. Apart from the meeting his family thing (which I may have adjusted to), I think I'd have been fine, but I really don't see anything else I could have done to make him feel better about it.
I guess it really depends on how you define "closeted", I mean there's quite a few levels. For example I'm out to everyone in the city I live in now, and I'm also out to my mom and a few other good friends from my past, but quite a few old friends and several family members don't know. I don't really see that as a problem, because it has absolutely no effect whatsoever on my day to day life. Anyway obviously I'd be fine dating someone in a similar situation. I guess the determining factor would be whether or not he would be comfortable acting normally in public.
Anyway, I really can't make up my mind about this, I keep going back and fourth between all 4 of the options in the poll lol. So I think I'll think about it awhile longer before I decide.
What do you guys think about this?
-Kevin
Full Version: Would you date someone in the closet?
As Someone who's still in the cloest, there are a few points i have to say.
One to me anyway, coming out to your parent's is the biggest step, becuase in the end, they mean the most to you, so it is alot harder to ask someone to do that.
I don't know if you would rate me as cloest or not, i mean to be honest, i don't care who knows im gay or not. The only reason i am not out, is because i work with 100 people, and doing what i do, i know it will effect my job, and at this point i can't have any of that.
But like you said Kevin, not being able to go out in public is stupid imo. I mean when i first went out with my first ever bf, we decided to go eat dinner together, and just as we pulled into the parking lot, i just freaked out, and so we decided to get fastfood instead ><
But my second bf, our first date was movies and a dinner, and it didn't feel weird at all. I mean i know i was still scared, i mean isn't everyone when they go out on a date? But the fact that i was able to go out to a public place with him made me feel okay.
Anyway, my answer to this poll is simple, it doesn't matter.
One to me anyway, coming out to your parent's is the biggest step, becuase in the end, they mean the most to you, so it is alot harder to ask someone to do that.
I don't know if you would rate me as cloest or not, i mean to be honest, i don't care who knows im gay or not. The only reason i am not out, is because i work with 100 people, and doing what i do, i know it will effect my job, and at this point i can't have any of that.
But like you said Kevin, not being able to go out in public is stupid imo. I mean when i first went out with my first ever bf, we decided to go eat dinner together, and just as we pulled into the parking lot, i just freaked out, and so we decided to get fastfood instead ><
But my second bf, our first date was movies and a dinner, and it didn't feel weird at all. I mean i know i was still scared, i mean isn't everyone when they go out on a date? But the fact that i was able to go out to a public place with him made me feel okay.
Anyway, my answer to this poll is simple, it doesn't matter.
I didn't vote, mainly because I think I would have a different answer depending on the guy and what his reasons were for staying in the closet. I'm thirty-two and quite comfortable being out. It would be difficult for me to revert back to hiding my relationship from others. Though I think for the right circumstances I'd make an exception.
Luckily for me, all the guys I normally date (read have meaningless sex with) are comfortable being gay and since it's usually one night stands, there isn't really a cause of closet dwelling or not. Though that might change very soon considering the events that are transpiring in my life at the moment. Maybe I should come back here in a few weeks and take the poll.
Jason R.
Luckily for me, all the guys I normally date (read have meaningless sex with) are comfortable being gay and since it's usually one night stands, there isn't really a cause of closet dwelling or not. Though that might change very soon considering the events that are transpiring in my life at the moment. Maybe I should come back here in a few weeks and take the poll.
Jason R.
QUOTE (AFriendlyFace @ November 30 2007, 02:16 PM) 
I guess it really depends on how you define "closeted", I mean there's quite a few levels.
Kevin,
I think you made a good point about the levels of closetedness.
I voted yes, I could date someone who's closeted (if I were attracted to them enough), but only if I felt they were making progress towards coming out.
It was hard for many of us to come out and I would hate to force someone out further then they were willing to be. But they have to be willing to stick their toes into the water and hopefully one day be comfortable enough to be out a respectable distance.
I remember when I was first dating my Ex (we had been together for about a month). We were shopping in the Monkey Wards and about 100 feet away, I see my mom. I literally push what's his name away from me in a panick
, so that it didn't seem like we were together.There was hell to pay after that
.I'm happy to say that 12 years later, I'm much more open about my gayness, but back in the day, yikes I was a case
.Take Care®,
Vic 'Who's head hurts from all this thinking that Kevin's makin us do'
Being that I'm in the closet and completely understand why someone else would be in there too, I would have no problem with dating a guy who is in the closet as well.
BUT, there would certainly come a time when the closet would become too confined and we might wind up breaking the door down and falling out in a piled of limbs and torsos... maybe with our pants down, who knows.
BUT, there would certainly come a time when the closet would become too confined and we might wind up breaking the door down and falling out in a piled of limbs and torsos... maybe with our pants down, who knows.
Well, right now, I'm in the closet for my parents, and to some of my friends. And i'm in a place where if my parent were asking me I wouldn't try to hide myself. I Like to think that having a boyfriend, I would come out when the need comes.
Therefore I wouldn't mind to date someone that is also closeted,, as long as he knows that sooner rather than later it will have to come out, unless he have a situation where it can be harmful to come out.
I'm guessing that, for this, it depends on everyone. depends on how open you wanna be with your bf.
Therefore I wouldn't mind to date someone that is also closeted,, as long as he knows that sooner rather than later it will have to come out, unless he have a situation where it can be harmful to come out.
I'm guessing that, for this, it depends on everyone. depends on how open you wanna be with your bf.
No, I would not. I understand not telling certain people about it, but to be closeted to the whole world is not something I could handle. I don't walk around with a sign, but I never go out of my way to hide it because I am comfortable with who I am. I would need the same self-assurance from anyone I dated. I don't like to pretend to be someone I'm not, and I want someone who would hold my hand in public and not be constantly pretending I was just a friend. I sympathize people who stay closeted while living at home - having parents who hate you is not pleasant - but I'm not likely to be dating them, so it doesn't really matter.
Menzo
Menzo
QUOTE (NaperVic @ November 30 2007, 06:02 PM)
'Who's head hurts from all this thinking that Kevin's makin us do'
No, No, Vic! It's Joe who makes us do things!
I'm completely innocent
QUOTE (rknapp @ November 30 2007, 06:07 PM)
BUT, there would certainly come a time when the closet would become too confined and we might wind up breaking the door down and falling out in a piled of limbs and torsos... maybe with our pants down, who knows.
What vivid imagery!
Interesting comments you guys!
Gays are sooo picky!!!
This means you guys won't date me!
Not even Kevin! *sobs*
Oh, come on, guys! I think you understand what being closeted means. Just forget what you are and try to be the closet one for once more. Not only he has to hide his identity but also, he'll have to deal with your issues of dating a closet gay. Just imagine if he really loves you and while trying not to lose you, he ends up doing something he shouldn't- like coming out to his parents when he isn't ready!
I'm with someone who is in closet and believe me, he's very very far in the closet to come out right now. But i don't care. That's not a priority for me. He comes out when he likes! But I'll be there whne he needs me.
Anyway, we don't have much time to meet. But when we do, we've to be like friends. Even I want to hold his hand, to show that we're bf. I know it sucks. But deep inside, I know that the feelings are more. That's more important. It's not in the next ten years that we're going to have guys holding hand safely on the road...
But, perhaps, it's different there (your place). Coming out here will mean (almost literally) suicide! When I talked about coming out (not to come out, just generally) with Rohun, he was
.
But one thing that sucks on closeted is the idea of them ditching you and getting married. :shudders: But if someone is in closet but firm about his sexuality to defend it (like me), I don't find any problem.
But this thread made me learn a few things I didn't know.
So if I understood right, when you're in closet, it's ok to date with someone gay. Why? Because you're not ready to come out yet. And when you're out, you can't! Because now, you're comfortable with being out. And the other guy?
Ieshwar, whose head is aching since he entered the adult's word.
This means you guys won't date me!
Not even Kevin! *sobs*Oh, come on, guys! I think you understand what being closeted means. Just forget what you are and try to be the closet one for once more. Not only he has to hide his identity but also, he'll have to deal with your issues of dating a closet gay. Just imagine if he really loves you and while trying not to lose you, he ends up doing something he shouldn't- like coming out to his parents when he isn't ready!
I'm with someone who is in closet and believe me, he's very very far in the closet to come out right now. But i don't care. That's not a priority for me. He comes out when he likes! But I'll be there whne he needs me.
Anyway, we don't have much time to meet.
But when we do, we've to be like friends. Even I want to hold his hand, to show that we're bf. I know it sucks. But deep inside, I know that the feelings are more. That's more important. It's not in the next ten years that we're going to have guys holding hand safely on the road...But, perhaps, it's different there (your place). Coming out here will mean (almost literally) suicide! When I talked about coming out (not to come out, just generally) with Rohun, he was
. But one thing that sucks on closeted is the idea of them ditching you and getting married. :shudders: But if someone is in closet but firm about his sexuality to defend it (like me), I don't find any problem.
But this thread made me learn a few things I didn't know.
So if I understood right, when you're in closet, it's ok to date with someone gay. Why? Because you're not ready to come out yet. And when you're out, you can't! Because now, you're comfortable with being out. And the other guy?
Ieshwar, whose head is aching since he entered the adult's word.
QUOTE (Ieshwar @ December 1 2007, 02:53 AM)
This means you guys won't date me! Not even Kevin! *sobs*
Not even Kevin! *sobs*I didn't say that! I said I didn't know whether or not I would date another person in the closet. It probably would depend on the circumstances.
QUOTE (Ieshwar @ December 1 2007, 02:53 AM)
I'm with someone who is in closet and believe me, he's very very far in the closet to come out right now. But i don't care. That's not a priority for me. He comes out when he likes! But I'll be there whne he needs me.
Good for you, Ieshwar!! He's lucky to have you!
QUOTE (Ieshwar @ December 1 2007, 02:53 AM)
Anyway, we don't have much time to meet. But when we do, we've to be like friends. Even I want to hold his hand, to show that we're bf. I know it sucks. But deep inside, I know that the feelings are more. That's more important. It's not in the next ten years that we're going to have guys holding hand safely on the road...
But, perhaps, it's different there (your place). Coming out here will mean (almost literally) suicide!
But when we do, we've to be like friends. Even I want to hold his hand, to show that we're bf. I know it sucks. But deep inside, I know that the feelings are more. That's more important. It's not in the next ten years that we're going to have guys holding hand safely on the road...But, perhaps, it's different there (your place). Coming out here will mean (almost literally) suicide!
Actually, I think this is exactly what I meant earlier about depending on the circumstances. What I'm saying is that I don't know if I would date another closeted person in my current situation/society/part of life, etc. What I mean is I'm out, it's not a very big deal, most of my friends are out, we can easily go out in public with boyfriends, we have an entire "gay district", etc. so as long as we're not very stupid (going into the wrong part of town and behaving inappropriately) it's unlikely anyone will even make a rude comment. As a result I've grown very accustomed to this luxury and it's a little difficult to, as others have pointed out, "regress" in terms of freedoms and self-assurance.
In your society things are obviously much different.
I'm very sorry to venture the guess that you've never been able to go out with a group of gay friends and be yourselves. Those freedoms aren't common place
As a result if I did live in Mauritius I suspect I never would have come out in the first place, and there wouldn't be very many openly gay people, so of course I would date someone in the closet. Having that special someone with whom I could share that side of myself would be a huge comfort and improvement over not having any other gay people in my life. Things are easier in the U.S. and even easier in the big cities. It's actually very possible to almost completely surround yourself with gay or at least gay friendly life if you want to. I almost feel embarrassed to admit this but nearly my entire social circle consists of GLBT people or straight allies. My only major links to the straight world over the past year and a half or so has been work, and incidental daily life activities (getting groceries, running errands, etc.), and even these could more or less be avoided by taking a job in the gay community itself, and choosing to exclusively live, work, shop, bank, eat, etc. in the gay district. Obviously I'd still run into straight people all the time, but it would be highly unlikely that they would be (openly) homophobic given our location (and considering that they could get themselves into social trouble by doing that).
Recently I was having a discussion with a group of friends and one of them jokingly remarked "I don't have a problem with straight people, it just isn't the norm".
Anyway, what I'm saying is that it's a completely different atmosphere, and I do feel extremely lucky and blessed to be a part of it
Life as a gay person really isn't difficult for me at this phase in my life. I wish it were such for everyone!
-Kevin
I don't think I can answer this one. Being closeted would be just one aspect of the person and I would be trying to look at the full package, not the individual parts.
As an example, my best on-line friend was very much closeted when we started chatting. With a bit of encouragement, he stepped out of the closet enough to tell a good friend at work. That good friend then introduced him to a gay friend, and in three months time they'll have been together for two years. The relationship ALSO helped my friend come out to others (including his family) because he wanted to be able to be open with his boyfriend. At the time they started dating, though, he was in the closet with no firm plans to step out much further.
So, looking at the total picture, there was a really nice guy who just happened to be closeted and was still in the early stages of coming out (with the possibility that he would step back in if things didn't go well). However, I really don't think that that was a significant factor for the boyfriend -- it was the OTHER aspects of my friend that he liked, such as his personality and common interests.
If something happened and I started to look for a S.O., I would look at whether they were closeted or not, but only because I want to come out. It would be a factor in deciding if I wanted to have a relationship with that person, but it wouldn't be the decider. There are a lot more important things to consider before that one.
As an example, my best on-line friend was very much closeted when we started chatting. With a bit of encouragement, he stepped out of the closet enough to tell a good friend at work. That good friend then introduced him to a gay friend, and in three months time they'll have been together for two years. The relationship ALSO helped my friend come out to others (including his family) because he wanted to be able to be open with his boyfriend. At the time they started dating, though, he was in the closet with no firm plans to step out much further.
So, looking at the total picture, there was a really nice guy who just happened to be closeted and was still in the early stages of coming out (with the possibility that he would step back in if things didn't go well). However, I really don't think that that was a significant factor for the boyfriend -- it was the OTHER aspects of my friend that he liked, such as his personality and common interests.
If something happened and I started to look for a S.O., I would look at whether they were closeted or not, but only because I want to come out. It would be a factor in deciding if I wanted to have a relationship with that person, but it wouldn't be the decider. There are a lot more important things to consider before that one.
I voted "yes"... I pretty much had to vote that way, as in some ways I'm closeted myself (at work in my case).
With me, it would depend on the guy, just like in any other way... However, I'd be unwilling to date someone who wasn't out to themselves, or just 'experimenting', due to that being non-conducive to a relationship.
I'd also like to qualify my vote in the sense that I have issues at the other end of the spectrum; I'm unlikely to date anyone who is what I consider "overly out". Sexuality is, in my view, just one small facet of a person's personality, and I have a dislike of people who make a huge issue of being gay, and feel the need to broadcast it every chance they get. (I'm talking about people who do it intentionally).
I also take serious exception to guys who want to be out everywhere, all the time, at the expense of common sense. For example, a guy who wants to hold hands in public when doing so puts us both at risk of serious boldily harm (when outnumbered in a redneck, homophobic location, for example.) I don't consider that being out, I consider that being a damn moron, and I prefer to avoid dating damn morons.
As you might guess, this is a big pet peeve of mine, in large part due to a jerk I was dating doing exactly that to make a "point" and be "out and proud", resulting a very serious barroom brawl and me having to fight. Mr. moron was sure quick to make his damn 'point' by taking my hand in public against my wishes and warning, but when we were as a direct result confronted by two rednecks (this was in a rural bar) the idiot left me to fight them both while he bravely cowered in a corner. Grrr... Needless to say, that was my second and final date with him, and I am very careful to avoid anyone like him. Ugh.
With me, it would depend on the guy, just like in any other way... However, I'd be unwilling to date someone who wasn't out to themselves, or just 'experimenting', due to that being non-conducive to a relationship.
I'd also like to qualify my vote in the sense that I have issues at the other end of the spectrum; I'm unlikely to date anyone who is what I consider "overly out". Sexuality is, in my view, just one small facet of a person's personality, and I have a dislike of people who make a huge issue of being gay, and feel the need to broadcast it every chance they get. (I'm talking about people who do it intentionally).
I also take serious exception to guys who want to be out everywhere, all the time, at the expense of common sense. For example, a guy who wants to hold hands in public when doing so puts us both at risk of serious boldily harm (when outnumbered in a redneck, homophobic location, for example.) I don't consider that being out, I consider that being a damn moron, and I prefer to avoid dating damn morons.
As you might guess, this is a big pet peeve of mine, in large part due to a jerk I was dating doing exactly that to make a "point" and be "out and proud", resulting a very serious barroom brawl and me having to fight. Mr. moron was sure quick to make his damn 'point' by taking my hand in public against my wishes and warning, but when we were as a direct result confronted by two rednecks (this was in a rural bar) the idiot left me to fight them both while he bravely cowered in a corner. Grrr... Needless to say, that was my second and final date with him, and I am very careful to avoid anyone like him. Ugh.
I voted NO. I've been out since I was 13 and wouldn't have anything in common with someone who is in the closet.
QUOTE (AFriendlyFace @ December 1 2007, 04:53 AM)
I didn't say that! I said I didn't know whether or not I would date another person in the closet. It probably would depend on the circumstances.
Good for you, Ieshwar!! He's lucky to have you!
Actually, I think this is exactly what I meant earlier about depending on the circumstances. What I'm saying is that I don't know if I would date another closeted person in my current situation/society/part of life, etc. What I mean is I'm out, it's not a very big deal, most of my friends are out, we can easily go out in public with boyfriends, we have an entire "gay district", etc. so as long as we're not very stupid (going into the wrong part of town and behaving inappropriately) it's unlikely anyone will even make a rude comment. As a result I've grown very accustomed to this luxury and it's a little difficult to, as others have pointed out, "regress" in terms of freedoms and self-assurance.
In your society things are obviously much different.
I'm very sorry to venture the guess that you've never been able to go out with a group of gay friends and be yourselves. Those freedoms aren't common place As a result if I did live in Mauritius I suspect I never would have come out in the first place, and there wouldn't be very many openly gay people, so of course I would date someone in the closet. Having that special someone with whom I could share that side of myself would be a huge comfort and improvement over not having any other gay people in my life.
Things are easier in the U.S. and even easier in the big cities. It's actually very possible to almost completely surround yourself with gay or at least gay friendly life if you want to. I almost feel embarrassed to admit this but nearly my entire social circle consists of GLBT people or straight allies. My only major links to the straight world over the past year and a half or so has been work, and incidental daily life activities (getting groceries, running errands, etc.), and even these could more or less be avoided by taking a job in the gay community itself, and choosing to exclusively live, work, shop, bank, eat, etc. in the gay district. Obviously I'd still run into straight people all the time, but it would be highly unlikely that they would be (openly) homophobic given our location (and considering that they could get themselves into social trouble by doing that).
Recently I was having a discussion with a group of friends and one of them jokingly remarked "I don't have a problem with straight people, it just isn't the norm".
Anyway, what I'm saying is that it's a completely different atmosphere, and I do feel extremely lucky and blessed to be a part of it Life as a gay person really isn't difficult for me at this phase in my life. I wish it were such for everyone!
-Kevin
Good for you, Ieshwar!! He's lucky to have you!
Actually, I think this is exactly what I meant earlier about depending on the circumstances. What I'm saying is that I don't know if I would date another closeted person in my current situation/society/part of life, etc. What I mean is I'm out, it's not a very big deal, most of my friends are out, we can easily go out in public with boyfriends, we have an entire "gay district", etc. so as long as we're not very stupid (going into the wrong part of town and behaving inappropriately) it's unlikely anyone will even make a rude comment. As a result I've grown very accustomed to this luxury and it's a little difficult to, as others have pointed out, "regress" in terms of freedoms and self-assurance.
In your society things are obviously much different.
I'm very sorry to venture the guess that you've never been able to go out with a group of gay friends and be yourselves. Those freedoms aren't common place
As a result if I did live in Mauritius I suspect I never would have come out in the first place, and there wouldn't be very many openly gay people, so of course I would date someone in the closet. Having that special someone with whom I could share that side of myself would be a huge comfort and improvement over not having any other gay people in my life. Things are easier in the U.S. and even easier in the big cities. It's actually very possible to almost completely surround yourself with gay or at least gay friendly life if you want to. I almost feel embarrassed to admit this but nearly my entire social circle consists of GLBT people or straight allies. My only major links to the straight world over the past year and a half or so has been work, and incidental daily life activities (getting groceries, running errands, etc.), and even these could more or less be avoided by taking a job in the gay community itself, and choosing to exclusively live, work, shop, bank, eat, etc. in the gay district. Obviously I'd still run into straight people all the time, but it would be highly unlikely that they would be (openly) homophobic given our location (and considering that they could get themselves into social trouble by doing that).
Recently I was having a discussion with a group of friends and one of them jokingly remarked "I don't have a problem with straight people, it just isn't the norm".
Anyway, what I'm saying is that it's a completely different atmosphere, and I do feel extremely lucky and blessed to be a part of it
Life as a gay person really isn't difficult for me at this phase in my life. I wish it were such for everyone!-Kevin
Closet status has come to the point where if I got a boyfriend (not happening in this lifetime) I would be completely comfortable being gay with him in public. The trouble would come when I wouldn't want my family to meet him, at least not as my boyfriend and not until after I've graduated, been employed, and officially moved out of the house (those things will likely occur all at once since my dad plans on retiring, buying a small yacht --39-42 footer-- selling the house in Jersey and cruising the American/Canadian waterways for a year). After that point, I would likely show him off to anyone and everyone that cared... especially if he could put up with that crap until 2011 (my likely coming out date).
But yes, if I got a boyfriend tomorrow, I would hold his hand in public and probably come out to my roommates and friends. I've decided that I have no problems with them since the biggest hurdle, my roommate Brian, is good friends with the lesbian couple whose house I will be going to in two weeks for a "Queermas" party. I think some of them might have figured me out anyway.
QUOTE (C James @ December 1 2007, 12:57 PM)
Mr. moron was sure quick to make his damn 'point' by taking my hand in public against my wishes and warning, but when we were as a direct result confronted by two rednecks (this was in a rural bar) the idiot left me to fight them both while he bravely cowered in a corner. Grrr... Needless to say, that was my second and final date with him, and I am very careful to avoid anyone like him. Ugh.
Wow!
I'm sorry, CJ And I do agree with you about there being a difference between being out and being stupid lol.
QUOTE (rknapp @ December 1 2007, 03:23 PM)
But yes, if I got a boyfriend tomorrow, I would hold his hand in public and probably come out to my roommates and friends. I've decided that I have no problems with them since the biggest hurdle, my roommate Brian, is good friends with the lesbian couple whose house I will be going to in two weeks for a "Queermas" party. I think some of them might have figured me out anyway.
Well good for you, Robbie!
I've also finally decided what my vote/decision is: Yes - if I thought they were going to come out soon. Or more like Vic said if I thought they were at least willing to test the waters and some day be mostly out.
Take care all,
-Kevin
Probably almost exclusively.
Ouch, CJ!
And nice decision, Robbie!
And Kevin, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I guess I was quite angsty due to my work at that time and quite vented it here.
Ieshwar
And nice decision, Robbie!
And Kevin, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I guess I was quite angsty due to my work at that time and quite vented it here.
Ieshwar
QUOTE (Ieshwar @ December 2 2007, 09:57 AM)
Ouch, CJ!
And nice decision, Robbie!
And Kevin, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I guess I was quite angsty due to my work at that time and quite vented it here.
Ieshwar
And nice decision, Robbie!
And Kevin, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I guess I was quite angsty due to my work at that time and quite vented it here.
Ieshwar
Wanna know what's sad? I had to go back up to my post in here to see what my "nice decision" was LMFAO. Yeah, selective memory sucks hahah.
Jumping straight down.... Sorry...
But my reply would be and is that OF COURSE!!! As i too would be in that same bloody closet!!!
But my reply would be and is that OF COURSE!!! As i too would be in that same bloody closet!!!
QUOTE (Ieshwar @ December 2 2007, 08:57 AM)
And Kevin, I'm sorry if I was a bit harsh. I guess I was quite angsty due to my work at that time and quite vented it here.
You weren't harsh, Ieshwar, I was just sorry that it seemed like I'd hurt your feelings.
QUOTE (BeaStKid @ December 3 2007, 04:53 AM)
As i too would be in that same bloody closet!!!
Well at least it wouldn't be a long-distance relationship
-Kevin
QUOTE (AFriendlyFace @ December 2 2007, 06:50 AM)
Wow! I'm sorry, CJ
And I do agree with you about there being a difference between being out and being stupid lol.
I'm sorry, CJ And I do agree with you about there being a difference between being out and being stupid lol.
Thanks... It was over ten years ago, but I'm still steamed. A little background; it was our second date, and there had been no hand holding (or anything else) in private. So, when he tried to reach for my hand in public, I was a little surprised, and told him why it wasn't a good idea (We were in a redneck bar, which I thought would be obvious...) He isnsited that you "couldn't hide who you were" and "should always be out, and I make a point of it" and latched onto my hand over the table. When the guys at the bar took notice moments later, he said to them "Yes, we're dating."
I guess my main point here is the guy has every right to be out, but he sure as hell doesn't have the right to expose others at will like that, and he especially doesn't have the right to stir up a fight by being stupid and then cower while someone else gets to fight it out. (I was lucky and did ok, but it was a near-run thing, and I don't like barroom brawls anyway.)
Hrmmm, I'm also wondering what defines "closeted". I've mentioned that I'm in the closet at work; I consider myself to be so becuase I don't tell them I'm gay. However, I also don't tell them that I like horseback riding, or any number of other things that are equally irrelevant in a work context. I doubt I'd deny it if anyone asked, though I'd likly not confirm it either (there would be financial ramifications for me, and I'm rather protective of my wallet) but I sure as heck don't need to broadcast it either. In much the same way, I'm closeted when I pull into a gas station to buy gas. I don't make a habit of saying "twenty bucks on pump #3, and I'm GAY!"
QUOTE (C James @ December 3 2007, 04:22 PM)
Thanks... It was over ten years ago, but I'm still steamed. A little background; it was our second date, and there had been no hand holding (or anything else) in private. So, when he tried to reach for my hand in public, I was a little surprised, and told him why it wasn't a good idea (We were in a redneck bar, which I thought would be obvious...) He isnsited that you "couldn't hide who you were" and "should always be out, and I make a point of it" and latched onto my hand over the table. When the guys at the bar took notice moments later, he said to them "Yes, we're dating."
I guess my main point here is the guy has every right to be out, but he sure as hell doesn't have the right to expose others at will like that, and he especially doesn't have the right to stir up a fight by being stupid and then cower while someone else gets to fight it out. (I was lucky and did ok, but it was a near-run thing, and I don't like barroom brawls anyway.)
Hrmmm, I'm also wondering what defines "closeted". I've mentioned that I'm in the closet at work; I consider myself to be so becuase I don't tell them I'm gay. However, I also don't tell them that I like horseback riding, or any number of other things that are equally irrelevant in a work context. I doubt I'd deny it if anyone asked, though I'd likly not confirm it either (there would be financial ramifications for me, and I'm rather protective of my wallet) but I sure as heck don't need to broadcast it either. In much the same way, I'm closeted when I pull into a gas station to buy gas. I don't make a habit of saying "twenty bucks on pump #3, and I'm GAY!"
I guess my main point here is the guy has every right to be out, but he sure as hell doesn't have the right to expose others at will like that, and he especially doesn't have the right to stir up a fight by being stupid and then cower while someone else gets to fight it out. (I was lucky and did ok, but it was a near-run thing, and I don't like barroom brawls anyway.)
Hrmmm, I'm also wondering what defines "closeted". I've mentioned that I'm in the closet at work; I consider myself to be so becuase I don't tell them I'm gay. However, I also don't tell them that I like horseback riding, or any number of other things that are equally irrelevant in a work context. I doubt I'd deny it if anyone asked, though I'd likly not confirm it either (there would be financial ramifications for me, and I'm rather protective of my wallet) but I sure as heck don't need to broadcast it either. In much the same way, I'm closeted when I pull into a gas station to buy gas. I don't make a habit of saying "twenty bucks on pump #3, and I'm GAY!"
...............Reminds me that when I was in forgien countries a few years back I always removed my "star" ........no need to advertise about being Jewish!!
QUOTE (Benji @ December 3 2007, 02:31 PM)
...............Reminds me that when I was in forgien countries a few years back I always removed my "star" ........no need to advertise about being Jewish!!It's horrible that is needed, but it, like keeping one's sexuality to one's self, is a very real need in some areas.
CJ, I made a decision some time ago that it is never my place to out someone without their permission. Even if that guy was happy being "out", he had no right to out you without your permission. Common courtesy means behaving in public in a way that your partner is comfortable with.
As a side point, my wife is uncomfortable with me making public displays of affection, including holding hands, so it is, in a non-threatening way, analogous to that situation you listed. The main difference is that it just makes her embarrassed, while in your case it threatened your health -- but in either case the other person should respect the wishes of their partner and behave accordingly (at least most of the time... I do tease her from time to time )
As a side point, my wife is uncomfortable with me making public displays of affection, including holding hands, so it is, in a non-threatening way, analogous to that situation you listed. The main difference is that it just makes her embarrassed, while in your case it threatened your health -- but in either case the other person should respect the wishes of their partner and behave accordingly (at least most of the time... I do tease her from time to time
)
YAY! just yay! LOL.
Like Vic said, only if they were going to come out soon or ready to test the waters, I refuse just to stay home cause there scared for the rest of the time we would be dating.
QUOTE (C James @ December 3 2007, 01:22 PM)
In much the same way, I'm closeted when I pull into a gas station to buy gas. I don't make a habit of saying "twenty bucks on pump #3, and I'm GAY!"
QUOTE (Benji @ December 3 2007, 01:31 PM)
...............Reminds me that when I was in foreign countries a few years back I always removed my "star" ........no need to advertise about being Jewish!! That reminds me...When I was driving across the US from Chicago to California, I stopped at some pretty rural places. Not being white, you get some strange looks & not so friendly treatment sometimes. Well, the 2nd day of my trip, I stopped at a motel for the night. I didn't have a reservation, but the woman at the counter was trying to find ANY way to get me a discount for the room. She asked if I had triple A and a few other things. I unfortunately said No to all of them, but then she ended up just giving me a discount on the room just for grins.I thought 'wow, finally someone really nice on this trip.' When I got to the room and went into the bathroom, I saw myself in the mirror. I was wearing a necklass with a cross on it (thought I had it under my shirt), but it must have come out and was very visible.
So I think the reason she treated me so nicely was because she thought I was a good christian boy
. So when in Rome....
Okay, I voted in this a while ago, but I've neglected to actually post until now.
Not only would I date someone in the closet, but in fact I already am dating someone in the closet. Now, to be clear, I'm talking about someone who is "out" to himself to the extent that he's okay having sexual relations with a guy and acknowledges the possibility of spending his life with another guy. That's what's important to me. He is not "out" to his parents, though its possible they suspect something since I've had dinner with them twice and they know we hang out together in his room till very late at night ...
Anyway, the part that matters is that they're "out" to themselves. If they haven't reached this part, then they're not ready for a relationship with another guy, and I'm not a fan of setting myself up to get my heart broken. If they're in the closet to their parents/family... I can work with them on that, or respect their decision to keep that part of their lives from their family. Of course... that could just be because I'm naturally a very accomodating person ......
Not only would I date someone in the closet, but in fact I already am dating someone in the closet. Now, to be clear, I'm talking about someone who is "out" to himself to the extent that he's okay having sexual relations with a guy and acknowledges the possibility of spending his life with another guy. That's what's important to me. He is not "out" to his parents, though its possible they suspect something since I've had dinner with them twice and they know we hang out together in his room till very late at night ...
Anyway, the part that matters is that they're "out" to themselves. If they haven't reached this part, then they're not ready for a relationship with another guy, and I'm not a fan of setting myself up to get my heart broken. If they're in the closet to their parents/family... I can work with them on that, or respect their decision to keep that part of their lives from their family. Of course... that could just be because I'm naturally a very accomodating person ......
BTW, in addition to my YAY at the 75% Yes (or Not Quite Yes, but definitely NOT no) votes, heh, I would like to add that if I ever got into a relationship with a guy who's out already out and I figured it to be serious, I'd do my best to come out as soon as possible.
I've been stifled enough in the closet anyway, and having a bf is a good enough excuse and support to get out and actually start LIVING. LOL.
But... there are also 'out' guys/girls who haven't told that special someone because of worry at their reaction. In this case it is my parents. Even if I came out to everybody, I still don't know if I can do it with my parents, they're old and the giving anybody their age something shocking to absorb is never a good idea. So, yeah. Some things are better kept secret.
So all you 'out' people out there, just remember how it was when you were still in hiding.
We're not gonna use you as a crutch, we just need a bit of support and patience. If he's just too chicken to come out tho.. dump him. LOL. But don't force him like 'I'll leave you if you don't tell your mom that I'm your bf", or bullshit like "You have to be out and proud of yourself!". Yeah. And get gaybashed in a dark alley...
Vic
You mean... you're NOT a good Christian boy?!
also.. maybe she thought you were cute! have you considered that? or maybe the room had hidden cameras? or maybe it had a bad leak when it rains? or maybe.... or maybe SHE was just a good Christian girl!!! LMAO
I've been stifled enough in the closet anyway, and having a bf is a good enough excuse and support to get out and actually start LIVING. LOL.
But... there are also 'out' guys/girls who haven't told that special someone because of worry at their reaction. In this case it is my parents. Even if I came out to everybody, I still don't know if I can do it with my parents, they're old and the giving anybody their age something shocking to absorb is never a good idea. So, yeah. Some things are better kept secret.
So all you 'out' people out there, just remember how it was when you were still in hiding.
We're not gonna use you as a crutch, we just need a bit of support and patience. If he's just too chicken to come out tho.. dump him. LOL. But don't force him like 'I'll leave you if you don't tell your mom that I'm your bf", or bullshit like "You have to be out and proud of yourself!". Yeah. And get gaybashed in a dark alley...Vic
QUOTE
because she thought I was a good Christian boy
You mean... you're NOT a good Christian boy?!
also.. maybe she thought you were cute! have you considered that?
or maybe the room had hidden cameras? or maybe it had a bad leak when it rains? or maybe.... or maybe SHE was just a good Christian girl!!! LMAO
I wouldn't date someone in the closet. To date someone, I would have to know that the person I'm seeing is comfortable enough with themselves. I know that when I was in the closet, I was no where near ready for a serious relationship with anybody.
It really would depend on the level of closetedness for me. I mean if they weren't out to their parents? That would probably be okay. But if they weren't out to anyone? At all? That would probably be a problem. I've gone on dates with guys who were so in the closet.... they neglected to tell me they still had a girlfriend. That was certainly not okay.
urk... totally NOT okay.
To be fair to the closet cases, I've been on dates with guys who neglected to tell me they had boyfriends as well. So closeted or not guys can still be jerks, lol. I'll stop being bitter right now it is the holidays.
I live in an area where it would be insane to be out completely. I'd be a hypocrite if I said I wouldn't date someone who was in the closet. I'm actually out to my family though. That is a big step. Unless there extenuating circumstances, I could not date someone who didn't plan to at least come out to his parents at some point in the near future.
QUOTE (Demetz @ December 12 2007, 10:38 AM)
Okay, I voted in this a while ago, but I've neglected to actually post until now.
Me too.
QUOTE (Demetz @ December 12 2007, 10:38 AM)
Anyway, the part that matters is that they're "out" to themselves. If they haven't reached this part, then they're not ready for a relationship with another guy, and I'm not a fan of setting myself up to get my heart broken. If they're in the closet to their parents/family... I can work with them on that, or respect their decision to keep that part of their lives from their family. Of course... that could just be because I'm naturally a very accomodating person ......
I've actually just made this mistake. Today in fact was when he finally said "Dude, I'm straight." I almost died. There's no way this guy is straight, you should have seen the way he acted the first time I asked him out! Giggling, blushing, an "I don't know." So I finally say "Are you going to go on a date with me or not?" Heh, he's 'straight.'
Anyway, I say yes. I would date someone in the closet, in fact I'm still working on the guy from above. Being 'out' isn't the only aspect of a person. Sure it can make a relationship difficult when one party is still 'in.' I understand that, and if I like the other person enough, I'd be willing to work at the relationship, I'd be willing to work around him being 'closeted.'
I certianly wouldn't pressure him to come 'out,' I was 'outed' before I was ready and I know it sucks. I needed someone there for me (boyfriend or not) that I didn't, and I'd make sure that he knows I'm there for him whenhe is ready. Not when I am ready for him to come out.
Public displays of affection are nice, but it's the togetherness you feel when alone that matters to me. Holding hands in public is nice, holding hands at home while watching a movie is special.
QUOTE
Public displays of affection are nice, but it's the togetherness you feel when alone that matters to me. Holding hands in public is nice, holding hands at home while watching a movie is special.
I dunno why... this makes me blush and tingle. LOL.
TARIN! You're a ROMANTIC!
QUOTE (Hylas @ January 1 2008, 03:02 PM)
TARIN! You're a ROMAINTIC!
Yeah! That is sooo like me!!!
QUOTE (Hylas @ January 1 2008, 04:32 AM)
I dunno why... this makes me blush and tingle. LOL.
TARIN! You're a ROMAINTIC!
TARIN! You're a ROMAINTIC!
Hehe, I guess.
Thanks.
Sure! Be careful for both yourself and them. When I was coming to grips with my orientation - and it took a long time - I had a friend I'd meet when traveling who was both patient and a great listener. Coming out of the chrysilis is tough for most of us. Be careful. Be kind
QUOTE (Menzoberranzen @ November 30 2007, 09:06 PM)
No, I would not. I understand not telling certain people about it, but to be closeted to the whole world is not something I could handle. I don't walk around with a sign, but I never go out of my way to hide it because I am comfortable with who I am. I would need the same self-assurance from anyone I dated. I don't like to pretend to be someone I'm not, and I want someone who would hold my hand in public and not be constantly pretending I was just a friend. I sympathize people who stay closeted while living at home - having parents who hate you is not pleasant - but I'm not likely to be dating them, so it doesn't really matter.
Menzo
Menzo
Menzo pretty much said it all for me. I might not be insanely confident or perfectly at ease around certain people, but if a boy is afraid to hold my hand or kiss me just because someone's around, then it's not going to work out well. I voted no on this one, even though there might be some crazy situation in which I would date a closeted guy. Even then, I couldn't deal with it long term.
One thing I will not do is mess around with a guy who is over 35 and still in the closet. That is a giant red flag. NEVER date somone over 35 and still in the closet. That's asking for trouble.
QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ February 7 2008, 06:36 PM)
One thing I will not do is mess around with a guy who is over 35 and still in the closet. That is a giant red flag. NEVER date somone over 35 and still in the closet. That's asking for trouble.
............I'll take your word for it
QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ February 7 2008, 06:36 PM)
One thing I will not do is mess around with a guy who is over 35 and still in the closet. That is a giant red flag. NEVER date somone over 35 and still in the closet. That's asking for trouble.
It sounds like it,,, your comment made me think about it a little more,,, I said that I wouldn't mind dating someone still in the closet,, But I would make an exception and wouldn't for some older guy that have no real reason not to be out.
I mean,, with someone of my age,, I can understand,, he might also still live with his parents,, and needs to. Therefore maybe there's a need not to come out to them just yet... But, with older guys,, there would be no reason,, that would indeed be asking for trouble
well, i actually thought about it before choosing yes.
but yeah, i would, if the guy was comfortable enough to show me affection and accept the affection i want to give back to him. i dunno, but i really am turned off by guys who wouldn't like a kiss or a hug or even nuzzling, or something. and i really want a guy to hold me and comfort me whenever i'm down and sad.
i can handle the non affection in public cuz people can be cruel, mean asses.
but i can see getting hurt and dumping the guy if he just buckles under pressure and denies all feelings for me.
gosh, this has really got me thinking. before, i just wanted a guy to hold me and say "i love you."
but yeah, i would, if the guy was comfortable enough to show me affection and accept the affection i want to give back to him. i dunno, but i really am turned off by guys who wouldn't like a kiss or a hug or even nuzzling, or something. and i really want a guy to hold me and comfort me whenever i'm down and sad.
i can handle the non affection in public cuz people can be cruel, mean asses.
but i can see getting hurt and dumping the guy if he just buckles under pressure and denies all feelings for me.
gosh, this has really got me thinking. before, i just wanted a guy to hold me and say "i love you."
QUOTE (Tarin @ December 31 2007, 12:39 AM)
I've actually just made this mistake. Today in fact was when he finally said "Dude, I'm straight." I almost died. There's no way this guy is straight, you should have seen the way he acted the first time I asked him out! Giggling, blushing, an "I don't know." So I finally say "Are you going to go on a date with me or not?" Heh, he's 'straight.'
Anyway, I say yes. I would date someone in the closet, in fact I'm still working on the guy from above. Being 'out' isn't the only aspect of a person. Sure it can make a relationship difficult when one party is still 'in.' I understand that, and if I like the other person enough, I'd be willing to work at the relationship, I'd be willing to work around him being 'closeted.'
I certianly wouldn't pressure him to come 'out,' I was 'outed' before I was ready and I know it sucks. I needed someone there for me (boyfriend or not) that I didn't, and I'd make sure that he knows I'm there for him whenhe is ready. Not when I am ready for him to come out.
Public displays of affection are nice, but it's the togetherness you feel when alone that matters to me. Holding hands in public is nice, holding hands at home while watching a movie is special.
Anyway, I say yes. I would date someone in the closet, in fact I'm still working on the guy from above. Being 'out' isn't the only aspect of a person. Sure it can make a relationship difficult when one party is still 'in.' I understand that, and if I like the other person enough, I'd be willing to work at the relationship, I'd be willing to work around him being 'closeted.'
I certianly wouldn't pressure him to come 'out,' I was 'outed' before I was ready and I know it sucks. I needed someone there for me (boyfriend or not) that I didn't, and I'd make sure that he knows I'm there for him whenhe is ready. Not when I am ready for him to come out.
Public displays of affection are nice, but it's the togetherness you feel when alone that matters to me. Holding hands in public is nice, holding hands at home while watching a movie is special.
What an awesome post, Tarin! You rock!
QUOTE (Daffioak @ February 8 2008, 04:41 AM)
gosh, this has really got me thinking. before, i just wanted a guy to hold me and say "i love you."
That's wonderful! I think it's important to really think about these things and I'm glad you're considering it
I'm sure you'll have amazing success with this as well (precisely because you are taking the time to examine what you want and how to get it!)
QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ February 7 2008, 04:36 PM)
One thing I will not do is mess around with a guy who is over 35 and still in the closet. That is a giant red flag. NEVER date somone over 35 and still in the closet. That's asking for trouble.
Hmmm
QUOTE (FrenchCanadian @ February 7 2008, 04:50 PM)
It sounds like it,,, your comment made me think about it a little more,,, I said that I wouldn't mind dating someone still in the closet,, But I would make an exception and wouldn't for some older guy that have no real reason not to be out.
I mean,, with someone of my age,, I can understand,, he might also still live with his parents,, and needs to. Therefore maybe there's a need not to come out to them just yet... But, with older guys,, there would be no reason,, that would indeed be asking for trouble
I mean,, with someone of my age,, I can understand,, he might also still live with his parents,, and needs to. Therefore maybe there's a need not to come out to them just yet... But, with older guys,, there would be no reason,, that would indeed be asking for trouble
Hmmm again
Well first off, I have to admit that I'm kinda unlikely to date someone more than a few years older than me anyway (ideally I tend to be interested in guys my age. If not I prefer a bit younger to older), so I suppose it's all a moot point really. However, if we're just straight up talking about whether it's more or less acceptable for younger guys to be closet than older guys...
Well, I'm very conflicted on this. As someone under 30, I think there's a huge tendency for us to be less patient with the older generation in terms of coming out. We see it as, "well, they've got their own life, they don't need anyone's approval, they aren't dependent on anyone, what's taking them so long?". I think this will pretty much be true as our generation ages and passes 30. What we must remember is that the older generations grew up in a completely different context. It is much more acceptable to be gay today than it was 20 or 30 years ago! I think this difference in society really is something that people will internalize to some extent in their formative years.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that objectively the majority of older people don't have as rational a reason as they may think to remain in the closet (of course some may, but just generally), at least not with regards to external factors. However, I think there's a great deal more internal pressure on them than there is on the younger folks.
We, for the most part, have grown up thinking they have a problem if they don't accept us (and I would agree with that of course). Many of the older generation may have grown up thinking that they themselves had the "problem" by being gay in the first place.
We must further remember that, particularly in the gay male culture, there's a premium on youth. I'm not particularly worried about it because I 1) expect older gays to become more visible as our generation does age, and 2) expect to take many if not most of the friends and resources I have now with me into older age. But I would be much more overwhelmed trying to come out at 30 than 20, and a great deal more overwhelmed than that trying to come out at 40, 50, or older than at 20.
The pressures a younger person (say 20 or below) faces on average deal with things like parental acceptance (and reliance on these parents), fear of bullying/ostracism at school, and in general more physical, material threats. These are extremely real and serious, and by no means am I trying to marginalize them or encourage kids to come out before they are ready, able, and safe. I also realize that there can be a great deal of internal confusion and angst as well. I just think the younger generation has opportunities and resources that have never been available before.
In sum, I guess what I'm getting at is that older folks may have more internal difficulties coming out, and younger folks may have more external difficulties, but individuals in both groups can easily face the opposite to the same or a greater degree. Happily though, I think individuals in both groups may find the coming out process easy and relatively painless
Anyway, let's cut each other some slack
Take care all
Kevin
QUOTE (AFriendlyFace @ February 8 2008, 03:01 PM)
What an awesome post, Tarin! You rock!
That's wonderful! I think it's important to really think about these things and I'm glad you're considering it
I'm sure you'll have amazing success with this as well (precisely because you are taking the time to examine what you want and how to get it!)
Hmmm
Hmmm again
Well first off, I have to admit that I'm kinda unlikely to date someone more than a few years older than me anyway (ideally I tend to be interested in guys my age. If not I prefer a bit younger to older), so I suppose it's all a moot point really. However, if we're just straight up talking about whether it's more or less acceptable for younger guys to be closet than older guys...
Well, I'm very conflicted on this. As someone under 30, I think there's a huge tendency for us to be less patient with the older generation in terms of coming out. We see it as, "well, they've got their own life, they don't need anyone's approval, they aren't dependent on anyone, what's taking them so long?". I think this will pretty much be true as our generation ages and passes 30. What we must remember is that the older generations grew up in a completely different context. It is much more acceptable to be gay today than it was 20 or 30 years ago! I think this difference in society really is something that people will internalize to some extent in their formative years.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that objectively the majority of older people don't have as rational a reason as they may think to remain in the closet (of course some may, but just generally), at least not with regards to external factors. However, I think there's a great deal more internal pressure on them than there is on the younger folks.
We, for the most part, have grown up thinking they have a problem if they don't accept us (and I would agree with that of course). Many of the older generation may have grown up thinking that they themselves had the "problem" by being gay in the first place.
We must further remember that, particularly in the gay male culture, there's a premium on youth. I'm not particularly worried about it because I 1) expect older gays to become more visible as our generation does age, and 2) expect to take many if not most of the friends and resources I have now with me into older age. But I would be much more overwhelmed trying to come out at 30 than 20, and a great deal more overwhelmed than that trying to come out at 40, 50, or older than at 20.
The pressures a younger person (say 20 or below) faces on average deal with things like parental acceptance (and reliance on these parents), fear of bullying/ostracism at school, and in general more physical, material threats. These are extremely real and serious, and by no means am I trying to marginalize them or encourage kids to come out before they are ready, able, and safe. I also realize that there can be a great deal of internal confusion and angst as well. I just think the younger generation has opportunities and resources that have never been available before.
In sum, I guess what I'm getting at is that older folks may have more internal difficulties coming out, and younger folks may have more external difficulties, but individuals in both groups can easily face the opposite to the same or a greater degree. Happily though, I think individuals in both groups may find the coming out process easy and relatively painless
Anyway, let's cut each other some slack
Take care all
Kevin
That's wonderful! I think it's important to really think about these things and I'm glad you're considering it
I'm sure you'll have amazing success with this as well (precisely because you are taking the time to examine what you want and how to get it!)
Hmmm
Hmmm again
Well first off, I have to admit that I'm kinda unlikely to date someone more than a few years older than me anyway (ideally I tend to be interested in guys my age. If not I prefer a bit younger to older), so I suppose it's all a moot point really. However, if we're just straight up talking about whether it's more or less acceptable for younger guys to be closet than older guys...
Well, I'm very conflicted on this. As someone under 30, I think there's a huge tendency for us to be less patient with the older generation in terms of coming out. We see it as, "well, they've got their own life, they don't need anyone's approval, they aren't dependent on anyone, what's taking them so long?". I think this will pretty much be true as our generation ages and passes 30. What we must remember is that the older generations grew up in a completely different context. It is much more acceptable to be gay today than it was 20 or 30 years ago! I think this difference in society really is something that people will internalize to some extent in their formative years.
Don't get me wrong, I agree that objectively the majority of older people don't have as rational a reason as they may think to remain in the closet (of course some may, but just generally), at least not with regards to external factors. However, I think there's a great deal more internal pressure on them than there is on the younger folks.
We, for the most part, have grown up thinking they have a problem if they don't accept us (and I would agree with that of course). Many of the older generation may have grown up thinking that they themselves had the "problem" by being gay in the first place.
We must further remember that, particularly in the gay male culture, there's a premium on youth. I'm not particularly worried about it because I 1) expect older gays to become more visible as our generation does age, and 2) expect to take many if not most of the friends and resources I have now with me into older age. But I would be much more overwhelmed trying to come out at 30 than 20, and a great deal more overwhelmed than that trying to come out at 40, 50, or older than at 20.
The pressures a younger person (say 20 or below) faces on average deal with things like parental acceptance (and reliance on these parents), fear of bullying/ostracism at school, and in general more physical, material threats. These are extremely real and serious, and by no means am I trying to marginalize them or encourage kids to come out before they are ready, able, and safe. I also realize that there can be a great deal of internal confusion and angst as well. I just think the younger generation has opportunities and resources that have never been available before.
In sum, I guess what I'm getting at is that older folks may have more internal difficulties coming out, and younger folks may have more external difficulties, but individuals in both groups can easily face the opposite to the same or a greater degree. Happily though, I think individuals in both groups may find the coming out process easy and relatively painless
Anyway, let's cut each other some slack
Take care all
Kevin
.......Excellent post Kev, and right on from where I stand, it is most definitely easier for today’s generation to come out than was mine, and of course it will be even easier ten twenty years down the line. Remember there was almost no support 30-40 years ago, no GSA groups, and the Medical community labeled us as a mental disorder.
QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ February 7 2008, 03:36 PM)
One thing I will not do is mess around with a guy who is over 35 and still in the closet. That is a giant red flag. NEVER date somone over 35 and still in the closet. That's asking for trouble.
35?? shame on you...the trouble isn't if I'm in the closet or not; it's the generation gap. when I was in high school, I generally had to hide from the football team...did you?? The scars of my youth still show today
QUOTE (FrenchCanadian @ February 7 2008, 03:50 PM)
It sounds like it,,, your comment made me think about it a little more,,, I said that I wouldn't mind dating someone still in the closet,, But I would make an exception and wouldn't for some older guy that have no real reason not to be out.
Question...what is a real reason to be out?? What drives people to advertise thier sexuality? I mean, if a girl was to hit on me repeatedly I'd let her know the reason i'm not interested, but way do two people hang on each other in public any way(straight or gay)??
I mean,, with someone of my age,, I can understand,, he might also still live with his parents,, and needs to. Therefore maybe there's a need not to come out to them just yet... But, with older guys,, there would be no reason,, that would indeed be asking for trouble
Question...what is a real reason to be out?? What drives people to advertise thier sexuality? I mean, if a girl was to hit on me repeatedly I'd let her know the reason i'm not interested, but way do two people hang on each other in public any way(straight or gay)??
I mean,, with someone of my age,, I can understand,, he might also still live with his parents,, and needs to. Therefore maybe there's a need not to come out to them just yet... But, with older guys,, there would be no reason,, that would indeed be asking for trouble
O.K. so my devout mormon mother and my boyfriends devout jahova witness parents aren't good enough reasons to stay in the closet? do I really have to confirm their suisspicions or can I just continue to not advertise our relationship??
QUOTE (Daffioak @ February 8 2008, 03:41 AM)
well, i actually thought about it before choosing yes.
but yeah, i would, if the guy was comfortable enough to show me affection and accept the affection i want to give back to him. i dunno, but i really am turned off by guys who wouldn't like a kiss or a hug or even nuzzling, or something. and i really want a guy to hold me and comfort me whenever i'm down and sad.
i can handle the non affection in public cuz people can be cruel, mean asses.
but i can see getting hurt and dumping the guy if he just buckles under pressure and denies all feelings for me.
gosh, this has really got me thinking. before, i just wanted a guy to hold me and say "i love you."
but yeah, i would, if the guy was comfortable enough to show me affection and accept the affection i want to give back to him. i dunno, but i really am turned off by guys who wouldn't like a kiss or a hug or even nuzzling, or something. and i really want a guy to hold me and comfort me whenever i'm down and sad.
i can handle the non affection in public cuz people can be cruel, mean asses.
but i can see getting hurt and dumping the guy if he just buckles under pressure and denies all feelings for me.
gosh, this has really got me thinking. before, i just wanted a guy to hold me and say "i love you."
leave it to a fifteen year old to hit on the most important part! At home, my BF and I use the word "love" often. In public, we say we care about each other
from Kevin's post
In sum, I guess what I'm getting at is that older folks may have more internal difficulties coming out, and younger folks may have more external difficulties, but individuals in both groups can easily face the opposite to the same or a greater degree. Happily though, I think individuals in both groups may find the coming out process easy and relatively painless
Anyway, let's cut each other some slack
Take care all
Kevin
O.k. Maybe I should appologize now for being kinda mean. I just get a little riled up when people say that because I'm older, I'm a problem.
QUOTE (Tom(lostone) @ February 8 2008, 06:25 PM)
35?? shame on you...the trouble isn't if I'm in the closet or not; it's the generation gap. when I was in high school, I generally had to hide from the football team...did you?? The scars of my youth still show today
O.K. so my devout mormon mother and my boyfriends devout jahova witness parents aren't good enough reasons to stay in the closet? do I really have to confirm their suisspicions or can I just continue to not advertise our relationship??
leave it to a fifteen year old to hit on the most important part!
At home, my BF and I use the word "love" often. In public, we say we care about each other
from Kevin's post
In sum, I guess what I'm getting at is that older folks may have more internal difficulties coming out, and younger folks may have more external difficulties, but individuals in both groups can easily face the opposite to the same or a greater degree. Happily though, I think individuals in both groups may find the coming out process easy and relatively painless
Anyway, let's cut each other some slack ;)
Take care all
Kevin
O.k. Maybe I should appologize now for being kinda mean. I just get a little riled up when people say that because I'm older, I'm a problem.
O.K. so my devout mormon mother and my boyfriends devout jahova witness parents aren't good enough reasons to stay in the closet? do I really have to confirm their suisspicions or can I just continue to not advertise our relationship??
leave it to a fifteen year old to hit on the most important part! At home, my BF and I use the word "love" often. In public, we say we care about each other
from Kevin's post
In sum, I guess what I'm getting at is that older folks may have more internal difficulties coming out, and younger folks may have more external difficulties, but individuals in both groups can easily face the opposite to the same or a greater degree. Happily though, I think individuals in both groups may find the coming out process easy and relatively painless
Anyway, let's cut each other some slack ;)
Take care all
Kevin
O.k. Maybe I should appologize now for being kinda mean. I just get a little riled up when people say that because I'm older, I'm a problem. 
.........So ya think 37 is old!! thanks I now feel ancient!
Your devout Mormon parents are not good enough reasons to stay in the closet.
I was outed and it cost me the love of my entire family and almost all of my friends at the time. Yes, those demons still haunt me, and yes the scars of my adolescence still show, but in the end it's not about what other people think. I don't care that my parents don't speak to me, because their opinion is less important than mine. I am proud of who I am, and that includes my sexuality.
Menzo
I was outed and it cost me the love of my entire family and almost all of my friends at the time. Yes, those demons still haunt me, and yes the scars of my adolescence still show, but in the end it's not about what other people think. I don't care that my parents don't speak to me, because their opinion is less important than mine. I am proud of who I am, and that includes my sexuality.
Menzo
QUOTE (Menzoberranzen @ February 8 2008, 05:33 PM)
Your devout Mormon parents are not good enough reasons to stay in the closet.
I was outed and it cost me the love of my entire family and almost all of my friends at the time. Yes, those demons still haunt me, and yes the scars of my adolescence still show, but in the end it's not about what other people think. I don't care that my parents don't speak to me, because their opinion is less important than mine. I am proud of who I am, and that includes my sexuality.
Menzo
I was outed and it cost me the love of my entire family and almost all of my friends at the time. Yes, those demons still haunt me, and yes the scars of my adolescence still show, but in the end it's not about what other people think. I don't care that my parents don't speak to me, because their opinion is less important than mine. I am proud of who I am, and that includes my sexuality.
Menzo
...........I'm sorry to hear that, hope things are better for you. It's no wonder the closets are full.
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