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Hylas
Some questions that I've been dying to ask someone for ages. If this topic has been discussed before, I'd like a link, please. ;P

So first of all, I'm closeted. That basically means I lie about who I really am to people. sad.gif Ever since I found out I was gay, it's been a conscious effort for me to hold up a 'straight' exterior. Not that I have flamboyant tendencies... I don't. But somehow, I feel guilty about letting other people get the idea that I'm straight. Here are two instances in which the pangs of guilt are strongest:

1) In my previous course in college, BS Biology. I was classmates with this really awesome girl. She's very intelligent, funny, and very pretty to boot. She's also vulnerable in that she has lupus (which is an incurable, hereditary, autoimmune disease, if anyone here doesn't know), plus she has scoliosis from a bad fall as a child (though, it's not noticeable, but she had to wear neck and spine braces sometimes). She's also a genuinely sincere human being. Lovely in every way. Our other male classmates wouldn't even dare court her, knowing she's beyond the simple college sexual liaisons that they're after. In short - she's the kind of girl you marry.

Problem is... I think she fell in love with me. :S I'm being VERY careful with my words here. But honestly, that is what I felt. I have the reputation of being the artistic, weird, geeky, introverted, childish class clown both in high school and in college. I'm NOT attractive, I have a sort of inferiority complex, I'm the farthest thing from conceited, and I would never claim to be the object of affection of another unless it's very clear that that is so. But you do know when someone's flirting with you. It's a sort of gut feeling. I could still be wrong, but I really don't think so. Judge for yourself. The following are only SOME reasons as for why I think so.

She starts following me around. She's the bossy female type. ;P She doesn't say no easily. She helped me with some projects when I didn't even ask her to. She always asks me first for a lab partner (and in fact I was her lab partner on every class that I shared with her). She asks me to 'libre' her (pay for her food, in the Philippines, this is a sure sign that someone is at least attracted to you, especially if you have the reputation of being not exactly rich and a tightwad, LOL). She made her email address in all ways, a complement to mine (I can't divulge my 'straight' email ad tho. but just to give you an idea: if my email had been "AJourneyToTheSea", hers would be "ASailToTheOcean", LOL). She keeps texting me. One time, when the entire class was joking around while waiting for our teacher, the discussion shifted to their ideal mates. Other girls automatically named matinee idols, her answer was 'Eddie Murphy'. :S When asked why, she said she wanted someone who can make her laugh. Go figure. Then late in our third year in Biology (just before I finally shifted courses to Programming), she starts giving hints about me being a B.S. (Acronym for "Bugnaw Simud" not "Bullshit" LOL, a popular Visayan slang, translated roughly as "Cold Snout" - meaning people who can't admit being in love with another person).

One day, she started humming "Why Don't You and I" by Chad Kroeger. I like the song, so I identified it. She was delighted I recognized it then cryptically said (with what could only be a look of flirtatious disdain on her face) that "of course you would like that song. It's you." o.O WTF?! The song is about a guy interested in a girl, but couldn't quite articulate it in her presence, in case you're wondering.That was when It dawned to me that she really was flirting with me all these years. She never had a boyfriend all throughout college, she had one suitor but never said yes to him. Of course, we'd been teased a lot as an 'item' already, and I always dismiss it, since I've always been popular as 'one of those rare men who understands women' among the girls anyway. The clincher was when I started talking about it seriously with some of my other women friends. Two women close to her confirmed it. In their words, "She's just waiting for you, fool!"

Drifting off-topic here for a bit, I should mention that I once had my palms read by a seeress, at the insistence of my mother (she wasn't a professional one, in fact she was a university teacher - in genetics of all things, LOL, but she had a reputation of being a 'natural' mananagna, a 'psychic'). Her words were: "You'll never be rich" (Which isn't a problem for me wink.gif ) and "You'll be courted by a woman." I don't believe in occult, but... Hot Damn. LOL

Ok, you get the idea. The problem is of course... I'm gay. That was probably what draws women to me in the first place. Their intuition probably singles me out as "non-threatening". I've had women flirt with me before, but never as serious as she had.

sad.gif She recently texted me out of the blue again. She's studying medicine now... and she's asking us to get together somewhere. She's still single... I told her i was too busy and stuff. So... HELP. I really don't want to hurt her. sad.gif It was never my intention to lead her on a wild goose chase all these years. She's beautiful (I still can't believe WHY it had to be ME, in the first place), and she could find another guy in a snap. So how can I tell her I don't and can't love her without hurting her? :S I want her to find happiness. And if she sticks her hopes on me... she's doomed. *sigh*

In addition, That recent text message was the first time we've been in contact again in 2 years. When I shifted, she had always been texting me, I replied as rarely as i could, to discourage her. Until she stopped, thankfully. So basically, I've been ignoring her and hoping she gets the hint. Should I just continue doing this?

2) Another thing is what I'll dub 'Straight guy relations'. My closest friends are straight and male. They have no idea I'm gay and with me around, they have no compunctions against cracking a homophobic joke or two. Basically, I'm masculine, so I have no problem with being 'one of the guys'. What bothers me is when someone makes a gay joke and I have to make a conscious choice of whether to laugh or to keep silent. sad.gif If I laughed... it'd make me look like a deliberate liar (which... all things considered is what being closeted is, really) if and when I finally come out. If I keep silent, they might start suspecting something's amiss...

They did suspect me of being gay once. And I had a few months in junior highschool when I felt like I was being held back at arm's length. Those were the times when the rumors about me being gay were the strongest, since I've never had a a girlfriend. The rumors died, and they just accepted my being 'a bit' LOL eccentric as the reason for me being girl-less. Still, I couldn't help but wonder if THAT was how they would treat me if I ever came out to them. sad.gif They still ask me if I have found myself a girlfriend regularly. At first I replied that "I'm waiting for someone, and I've still not found her." then more and more, recently, i find myself answering flippantly that "No. I'm interested in boys.". I don't know if I should be glad that they just laugh and wouldn't take it seriously. :S

It happens everytime. Different situations too. Like when meeting someone gay, some of my friends (tho not actually homophobic, they do respect the gay friends we have, but they treat them like girls), wouldn't be able to resist making a snide comment or two and then expect me to laugh with him about it. One night (just this november), we were watching some music videos while drinking beer, we fell into discussing the Red Hot Chili Peppers. All my male friends like them, and "Californication" was one of the few songs that all guys of our high school class liked, regardless of the cliques they belong to. One of my friends commented that "They're probably gay." with a wave of dismissal. As if he would never listen to them again if they did turn out to be gay (I have vague suspicions myself that RHCP are bi at least, lol) I just lamely replied, "So what?"...

My accounting teacher was gay. He's respected and well-liked, even in the university community (but then again, most filipinos respect teachers more so than any other profession, except nuns maybe tongue.gif, no matter the gender). he's already fortyish something and pretty flamboyant. He confided to our class that he'd been a closet gay until his twenties. I once saw him with a group of what could only be his batchmates. All straight, except for him, most were married and professors in their own right. They were walking along a street and bantering lightly. There was NO trace of him being excluded, and I kinda feel envious and I wish that if I ever came out, my 'barkada' (group of close friends) would still be as open to me like his was.

And... I'm thinking of confiding to my bestfriend soon, who's probably one of the least homophobic in our group. He's straight tho... and I think he suspects me already of being Bi... Then there's parents. But I've given up on them, I think. It'd break their heart. :S If I come out, it'll probably be only to my friends and my siblings. I'll find ways to keep my mom and dad from finding out.

:S

I don't feel right about any of it. I feel guilty as hell. In the case of Lani, I feel guilty for unconsciously leading her to believe that she may have had a chance with me. With my friends, it's a case of "Will I still be able to face them with the truth, after years of making them believe I had been one of them (straight)?".

It's one of the reasons why I want to be out of this country, find a job abroad, find a partner, end all this lying, and be as far way as possible from the repercussions... T.T

So the main question is... how do I cope with lying about myself to others?

(P.S. Sorry for the novel-length post, ROFL. This question just had been in my mind for soooo long...)

(P.P.S. I'm not quite asking for answers. Sharing similar experiences will be quite as enlightening, and I encourage you to do so. tongue.gif)
Menzoberranzen
Mmm, I normally advocate coming out of the closet, but that is to people who live in the west. I really don't know the culture of the Philippines well enough to know what coming out fully entails. You can't live in the closest without living a lie. It's worth it to some people, and to some people it isn't. However, there are a million people out there who 'love' someone of the same sexual orientation as themselves but who don't love them in return. You can tell this girl that you're just not interested without coming out to her, and you should.

As for your friends, I won't repeat the cliche that if they're really you friends they'll love you anyway, but in my experience if a person is ok with you being gay, they're generally ok with you having been in the closet for years. If they're not ok with you being gay, well I advise you stop including them in your list of friends.

Menzo
Benji
QUOTE (Hylas @ December 4 2007, 02:33 AM) *
Some questions that I've been dying to ask someone for ages. If this topic has been discussed before, I'd like a link, please. ;P

So first of all, I'm closeted. That basically means I lie about who I really am to people. sad.gif Ever since I found out I was gay, it's been a conscious effort for me to hold up a 'straight' exterior. Not that I have flamboyant tendencies... I don't. But somehow, I feel guilty about letting other people get the idea that I'm straight. Here are two instances in which the pangs of guilt are strongest:

1) In my previous course in college, BS Biology. I was classmates with this really awesome girl. She's very intelligent, funny, and very pretty to boot. She's also vulnerable in that she has lupus (which is an incurable, hereditary, autoimmune disease, if anyone here doesn't know), plus she has scoliosis from a bad fall as a child (though, it's not noticeable, but she had to wear neck and spine braces sometimes). She's also a genuinely sincere human being. Lovely in every way. Our other male classmates wouldn't even dare court her, knowing she's beyond the simple college sexual liaisons that they're after. In short - she's the kind of girl you marry.

Problem is... I think she fell in love with me. :S I'm being VERY careful with my words here. But honestly, that is what I felt. I have the reputation of being the artistic, weird, geeky, introverted, childish class clown both in high school and in college. I'm NOT attractive, I have a sort of inferiority complex, I'm the farthest thing from conceited, and I would never claim to be the object of affection of another unless it's very clear that that is so. But you do know when someone's flirting with you. It's a sort of gut feeling. I could still be wrong, but I really don't think so. Judge for yourself. The following are only SOME reasons as for why I think so.

She starts following me around. She's the bossy female type. ;P She doesn't say no easily. She helped me with some projects when I didn't even ask her to. She always asks me first for a lab partner (and in fact I was her lab partner on every class that I shared with her). She asks me to 'libre' her (pay for her food, in the Philippines, this is a sure sign that someone is at least attracted to you, especially if you have the reputation of being not exactly rich and a tightwad, LOL). She made her email address in all ways, a complement to mine (I can't divulge my 'straight' email ad tho. but just to give you an idea: if my email had been "AJourneyToTheSea", hers would be "ASailToTheOcean", LOL). She keeps texting me. One time, when the entire class was joking around while waiting for our teacher, the discussion shifted to their ideal mates. Other girls automatically named matinee idols, her answer was 'Eddie Murphy'. :S When asked why, she said she wanted someone who can make her laugh. Go figure. Then late in our third year in Biology (just before I finally shifted courses to Programming), she starts giving hints about me being a B.S. (Acronym for "Bugnaw Simud" not "Bullshit" LOL, a popular Visayan slang, translated roughly as "Cold Snout" - meaning people who can't admit being in love with another person).

One day, she started humming "Why Don't You and I" by Chad Kroeger. I like the song, so I identified it. She was delighted I recognized it then cryptically said (with what could only be a look of flirtatious disdain on her face) that "of course you would like that song. It's you." o.O WTF?! The song is about a guy interested in a girl, but couldn't quite articulate it in her presence, in case you're wondering.That was when It dawned to me that she really was flirting with me all these years. She never had a boyfriend all throughout college, she had one suitor but never said yes to him. Of course, we'd been teased a lot as an 'item' already, and I always dismiss it, since I've always been popular as 'one of those rare men who understands women' among the girls anyway. The clincher was when I started talking about it seriously with some of my other women friends. Two women close to her confirmed it. In their words, "She's just waiting for you, fool!"

Drifting off-topic here for a bit, I should mention that I once had my palms read by a seeress, at the insistence of my mother (she wasn't a professional one, in fact she was a university teacher - in genetics of all things, LOL, but she had a reputation of being a 'natural' mananagna, a 'psychic'). Her words were: "You'll never be rich" (Which isn't a problem for me wink.gif ) and "You'll be courted by a woman." I don't believe in occult, but... Hot Damn. LOL

Ok, you get the idea. The problem is of course... I'm gay. That was probably what draws women to me in the first place. Their intuition probably singles me out as "non-threatening". I've had women flirt with me before, but never as serious as she had.

sad.gif She recently texted me out of the blue again. She's studying medicine now... and she's asking us to get together somewhere. She's still single... I told her i was too busy and stuff. So... HELP. I really don't want to hurt her. sad.gif It was never my intention to lead her on a wild goose chase all these years. She's beautiful (I still can't believe WHY it had to be ME, in the first place), and she could find another guy in a snap. So how can I tell her I don't and can't love her without hurting her? :S I want her to find happiness. And if she sticks her hopes on me... she's doomed. *sigh*

In addition, That recent text message was the first time we've been in contact again in 2 years. When I shifted, she had always been texting me, I replied as rarely as i could, to discourage her. Until she stopped, thankfully. So basically, I've been ignoring her and hoping she gets the hint. Should I just continue doing this?

2) Another thing is what I'll dub 'Straight guy relations'. My closest friends are straight and male. They have no idea I'm gay and with me around, they have no compunctions against cracking a homophobic joke or two. Basically, I'm masculine, so I have no problem with being 'one of the guys'. What bothers me is when someone makes a gay joke and I have to make a conscious choice of whether to laugh or to keep silent. sad.gif If I laughed... it'd make me look like a deliberate liar (which... all things considered is what being closeted is, really) if and when I finally come out. If I keep silent, they might start suspecting something's amiss...

They did suspect me of being gay once. And I had a few months in junior highschool when I felt like I was being held back at arm's length. Those were the times when the rumors about me being gay were the strongest, since I've never had a a girlfriend. The rumors died, and they just accepted my being 'a bit' LOL eccentric as the reason for me being girl-less. Still, I couldn't help but wonder if THAT was how they would treat me if I ever came out to them. sad.gif They still ask me if I have found myself a girlfriend regularly. At first I replied that "I'm waiting for someone, and I've still not found her." then more and more, recently, i find myself answering flippantly that "No. I'm interested in boys.". I don't know if I should be glad that they just laugh and wouldn't take it seriously. :S

It happens everytime. Different situations too. Like when meeting someone gay, some of my friends (tho not actually homophobic, they do respect the gay friends we have, but they treat them like girls), wouldn't be able to resist making a snide comment or two and then expect me to laugh with him about it. One night (just this november), we were watching some music videos while drinking beer, we fell into discussing the Red Hot Chili Peppers. All my male friends like them, and "Californication" was one of the few songs that all guys of our high school class liked, regardless of the cliques they belong to. One of my friends commented that "They're probably gay." with a wave of dismissal. As if he would never listen to them again if they did turn out to be gay (I have vague suspicions myself that RHCP are bi at least, lol) I just lamely replied, "So what?"...

My accounting teacher was gay. He's respected and well-liked, even in the university community (but then again, most filipinos respect teachers more so than any other profession, except nuns maybe tongue.gif , no matter the gender). he's already fortyish something and pretty flamboyant. He confided to our class that he'd been a closet gay until his twenties. I once saw him with a group of what could only be his batchmates. All straight, except for him, most were married and professors in their own right. They were walking along a street and bantering lightly. There was NO trace of him being excluded, and I kinda feel envious and I wish that if I ever came out, my 'barkada' (group of close friends) would still be as open to me like his was.

And... I'm thinking of confiding to my bestfriend soon, who's probably one of the least homophobic in our group. He's straight tho... and I think he suspects me already of being Bi... Then there's parents. But I've given up on them, I think. It'd break their heart. :S If I come out, it'll probably be only to my friends and my siblings. I'll find ways to keep my mom and dad from finding out.

:S

I don't feel right about any of it. I feel guilty as hell. In the case of Lani, I feel guilty for unconsciously leading her to believe that she may have had a chance with me. With my friends, it's a case of "Will I still be able to face them with the truth, after years of making them believe I had been one of them (straight)?".

It's one of the reasons why I want to be out of this country, find a job abroad, find a partner, end all this lying, and be as far way as possible from the repercussions... T.T

So the main question is... how do I cope with lying about myself to others?

(P.S. Sorry for the novel-length post, ROFL. This question just had been in my mind for soooo long...)

(P.P.S. I'm not quite asking for answers. Sharing similar experiences will be quite as enlightening, and I encourage you to do so. tongue.gif )



cool.gif ...........G_d! this is a tough one for! Your Safety is number one here, as I don't know how your culture will react. sad.gif
The Reaper
Well, thats a tough one man. But i know how you feel...somewhat. I mean i was always "one of the guys," and now that "the guys" know im gay, im still "one of the guys." Im very masculine (although i hate that word, along with feminine), and thats who i am. Just because im gay doesnt mean i have to run around with a rainbow on my forehead criticizing everyones outfits and have that stupid lisp i hate. Im gay, not a woman (that last statement had no connection to the one before it btw.)

I like gay jokes, i find them to be funny and tasteful most days. Im known to make a naughty joke about things (even gays sometimes). Everyone has that awkward feeling when a joke about them is being told. Why do you think people dont tell black jokes around blacks, or mexican jokes around mexicans? Why do you think people dont make fun of asians for bad driving while an asian is driving? Mainly because it creates tension.


You said you joking answered jokes of having a girlfriend with a gay remark, i used to do that often too...more than often really haha. I was always the funny guy who acted gay cus it made people laugh. Doing that all my life really helped soften the blow when i told my friends. They were like "Really? Oh, ok." And that was that pretty much. Although afterward they told me they all had their doubts, although who doesnt have their hopes and doubts about their friends?

About that girl who likes you, seems she does like you. But if your not going out then why worry? If she says anything, all you have to do is say "I like you as a friend, not that way." Simple and effective, nothing to quag about.

But yeah, idk if your friends hate gays or anything, then id say something about it. I mean if they are friends they're not going to care.

About the whole guilt of lying thing, what gay hasnt lied at one point? WHo on earth hasnt lied at one point? Lying is an issue of morals, and morals arent made by anyone but yourself. So if you dont like your moral, change them for the better!


peace...........and good luck broski
Condor
ahhh lying. It just comes naturally sometimes. Some people believe that anything but full and complete disclosure is lying ... the whole "omission of the truth" thing. I'm not one of them, I can't be, I'm still in the closet. When an omission matters is when it is a critical part of needed information. That generally only involves intimate relationships when it comes to sexuality.

As for your female friend, what really matters is what you want. If you wish to snub her, then simply ignore her. Probably not the nice or mature way, but it is a choice. Your best bet is to follow much of the above advice and simply tell her you aren't interesed in her. I wouldn't say that you like her as a friend or that you don't like her in 'that' way, because it leaves open a door that is closed -- she will misread the signal.

I don't have to worry about my offline friend's reactions, that would require I have friends offline. I just have coworkers. And the cliche spouted above is borderline assinine (is that arsinine in you commonwealth countries :unsure ). By definition, your friends are the ones who stick by you tongue.gif .

As to my family, well, they will find out when they meet a bf, if I ever get one.

meh ... dunno where I was going, but I think I got there anyway.

Take care and stay safe

king.gif Dr. Mr. Snow "Snoopy" Dog
Hylas
thanks all for the reply. biggrin.gif

QUOTE
You can tell this girl that you're just not interested without coming out to her, and you should.


i find talking to women about intimacy a bit awkward tho... sad.gif Maybe I'll just continue brushing her off? I know I should tell her... but what could be my reason? I mean if I were straight I'd totally fall for her. meh. I'll just avoid her until she realizes it or she confronts me... :S I hope she does. lol

QUOTE
Your Safety is number one here, as I don't know how your culture will react.


no. no. LOL. as far as i know, ive known no incidence of gaybashing here. but gay snubbing, disowning, etc. is the usual thing that happens tho. :S parents are the worst since they have the old culture mentality that gays are unnatural. i knew one gay guy in college who was out at the university but straight acting with his parents. :S

QUOTE
Lying is an issue of morals, and morals arent made by anyone but yourself. So if you dont like your moral, change them for the better!


bleh. it just bothers me that's all. lol. kind of like your conscience nagging you when you look at a girl your buds we're pointing out and you agree she's hot. sigh. i guess i'll just wait until i'm out. then all this will be forgotten. hehe. ^^ I hope... :S

QUOTE
Doing that all my life really helped soften the blow when i told my friends.


lol yeah. maybe i shud do those things more often. soften them up too. tongue.gif

QUOTE
I wouldn't say that you like her as a friend or that you don't like her in 'that' way, because it leaves open a door that is closed -- she will misread the signal.


yah. good point. maybe ill just ahve to wait until i tell everybody im gay... or not. coz then maybe she'll start plotting my death, LOL. hell hath no fury...

QUOTE
I don't have to worry about my offline friend's reactions, that would require I have friends offline.


lol. i hope you're just joking. wink.gif yep. so if my friends will hate me if i tell them. they're not really friends. i hope i dont lose too many of them... LOL
rknapp
*skipping over the entire thread with the intent of returning to it later*

As far as that girl goes, you're not alone. I have one too. I already know that she has been very interested in me since the beginning of high school, but I've never taken the next step simply because I don't know yet what I want and I don't want for there be complications because of that later on down the road I if get together with her now. Of course, that has presented other complications as people always tell me (mother, cousin, best friends sister, their mother, her mother, friends here) that we're perfect for each other. It gets hard because I don't want to tell any of them the reason why I've resisted her. She started dating a guy from West Point (military academy in West Point, NY) and she told me that he likely plans on proposing to her. I hope not, since she can't say no to other people and he is the worst thing that has happened to her (ex: he loves his POS car more than anything else, just as I do mine, but at least I can put other people before my car).

I haven't heard from her in well over a month and a half and that worries me since several members of her family have been sick recently, including her older sister who is pretty much on her death bed from a malignant brain tumor). I hope I can get a hold of her soon to be sure she's ok...


EDIT: Here's a reason for WHY these girls are attracted to us. First, we're not out, so we're fair game to them. Second, we listen to them and care about them, as opposed to caring about the best way to get into their pants... women love that in men. It's a case of us being lucky that they don't assume we're gay (and thusly avoiding coming out for the time being) and unlucky in that they've attached themselves to us and so when we do eventually come out, they'll be hurt.

It sucks, but what're you gonna do? Manifest the standard guy-stereotype and be a dick to them? I think not. We're too nice for our own good...
Graeme
QUOTE (rknapp @ December 5 2007, 07:02 PM) *
EDIT: Here's a reason for WHY these girls are attracted to us. First, we're not out, so we're fair game to them. Second, we listen to them and care about them, as opposed to caring about the best way to get into their pants... women love that in men. It's a case of us being lucky that they don't assume we're gay (and thusly avoiding coming out for the time being) and unlucky in that they've attached themselves to us and so when we do eventually come out, they'll be hurt.

I remember one vacation when I went on a South Pacific cruise. One of my room mates (who was drunk at the time) told me that I was good guy and I was going to make some girl really happy one day. He had no idea of who I really wanted to make happy at that particular moment, but he then headed off with the girl he'd picked up.... *sigh* Though he was right about making some girl really happy one day biggrin.gif
Hylas
QUOTE
We're too nice for our own good...


exactly...

wait.

something a female friend of mine posted a long time ago:

Reasons why ladies today are still
SINGLE:



1. The nice men are ugly.




2. The handsome men are not nice.




3. The handsome and nice men are gay.




4. The handsome, nice and heterosexual
men are married.




5. The men who are not so handsome,
but are nice men, have no money.


6. The men who are not so handsome,
but are nice men with money think we
are only after their money.



7. The handsome men without money are
after our money.



8. The handsome men, who are not so
nice and somewhat heterosexual,
don 't think we are beautiful enough.


<BR>
9. The men who think we are beautiful,
that are heterosexual,
som ewhat nice and have money, are
cowards.
<BR>


10. The men who are somewhat handsome,
somewhat nice and have some money and
thank God are heterosexual,
are shy and NEVER MAKE THE FIRST
MOVE!!!!




11. The men who never make the first
move,
automatically lose interest in us when
we take the initiative.



NOW, WHO THE HELL UNDERSTANDS MEN?

"Men are like a fine wine.
They all start out like grapes, and
it's our job to stomp on them
and keep them in the dark until they
mature into something
you'd like to have dinner with"
CoLeYy
aha !!
i like that ... !!
Hylas
FEMALE ALERT! LOL
writeincode
QUOTE
11. The men who never make the first
move,
automatically lose interest in us when
we take the initiative.

mad.gif grrrr
Hylas
lol. btw, girls. most of that is true. wink.gif most shy men shy away from aggressive women. LOL I'm glad I'm gay! biggrin.gif
pitchan
Lol.
AFriendlyFace
I have several thoughts on this but first:

QUOTE
It's one of the reasons why I want to be out of this country, find a job abroad, find a partner, end all this lying, and be as far way as possible from the repercussions... T.T

Personally, I think this is the best thing you can do for yourself.

Secondly:

QUOTE (The Reaper @ December 4 2007, 04:42 PM) *
About the whole guilt of lying thing, what gay hasnt lied at one point? WHo on earth hasnt lied at one point? Lying is an issue of morals, and morals arent made by anyone but yourself. So if you dont like your moral, change them for the better!

Although I'm not exactly in favour of changing your morals I think the basic truth of this statement boils down to:

If you don't like something change it or get over it

and that's advice I've always found useful.

QUOTE (rknapp @ December 5 2007, 02:02 AM) *
EDIT: Here's a reason for WHY these girls are attracted to us. First, we're not out, so we're fair game to them. Second, we listen to them and care about them, as opposed to caring about the best way to get into their pants... women love that in men. It's a case of us being lucky that they don't assume we're gay (and thusly avoiding coming out for the time being) and unlucky in that they've attached themselves to us and so when we do eventually come out, they'll be hurt.

Robbie is right except I really disagree about the statement It's a case of us being lucky that they don't assume we're gay, IMO, it would be much better if they did assume the object of their affection is gay.

Now as for your post:

QUOTE (Hylas @ December 4 2007, 01:33 AM) *
I'm NOT attractive, I have a sort of inferiority complex

hug.gif well at least you've realized that it's a complex and not the truth. Let's dismiss this "I'm NOT attractive" business straight away! I'm sure you're gorgeous and everyone is someone's type, besides confidence is attractive wink.gif

QUOTE (Hylas @ December 4 2007, 01:33 AM) *
In addition, That recent text message was the first time we've been in contact again in 2 years. When I shifted, she had always been texting me, I replied as rarely as i could, to discourage her. Until she stopped, thankfully. So basically, I've been ignoring her and hoping she gets the hint. Should I just continue doing this?

Regarding your friend, I would say that you definitely do need to level with her. I would suggest that you do just come out to her gently and ask her not to tell anyone. It's hard to know exactly how she would respond (particularly since I've never met her tongue.gif), but I know that it would soften the blow for me if the reason my love interest didn't reciprocate was because he/she was incapable of being attracted to my gender. I would also assume that if you guys are pretty close she'll try to understand and honour your request for privacy. Granted though she may be so hurt and embarrassed that she'll take it worse and maybe even out you as a result. It's a tricky decision and only you can make it.

In any case, simply saying you're not interested (regardless of whether or not you add "because I'm gay" to the end of the sentence) seems to be in order. It's just not fair to leave her hanging on like this. She needs to move on with her life and know that she's wasting her time.

QUOTE (Hylas @ December 4 2007, 01:33 AM) *
2) Another thing is what I'll dub 'Straight guy relations'.
...
They still ask me if I have found myself a girlfriend regularly. At first I replied that "I'm waiting for someone, and I've still not found her." then more and more, recently, i find myself answering flippantly that "No. I'm interested in boys."
...
One of my friends commented that "They're probably gay." with a wave of dismissal. As if he would never listen to them again if they did turn out to be gay (I have vague suspicions myself that RHCP are bi at least, lol) I just lamely replied, "So what?"

Dude! I'm really proud of you! thumbsupsmileyanim.gif That's extremely courageous given your situation! worshippy.gif

Also, I think that these things must at least plant the seed in their heads that you might be gay. At this point they're probably simply choosing to "look the other way", which may be good in that it probably wouldn't come as a big shock to them.
QUOTE (Hylas @ December 4 2007, 01:33 AM) *
My accounting teacher was gay. He's respected and well-liked, even in the university community (but then again, most filipinos respect teachers more so than any other profession, except nuns maybe tongue.gif, no matter the gender). he's already fortyish something and pretty flamboyant. He confided to our class that he'd been a closet gay until his twenties. I once saw him with a group of what could only be his batchmates. All straight, except for him, most were married and professors in their own right. They were walking along a street and bantering lightly. There was NO trace of him being excluded, and I kinda feel envious and I wish that if I ever came out, my 'barkada' (group of close friends) would still be as open to me like his was.

My thoughts on this are simple. Why do you assume that his barkada did accept him? It seems pretty likely to me that his current group of friends are new friends (at least new in the sense that most of these aren't the people he grew up with). I mean it's unlikely that all of his friends also chose to be professors. It sounds to me like what he did was come out and then find an accepting environment where his orientation didn't matter. And you can do that too.

It's sad but sometimes the people we grew up with aren't the people we're always going to be compatible with. It doesn't just have to do with being gay but simply with diverging interests. I'm still good friends with a few of my original childhood friends, and the rest I still regard warmly and am friendly with when our paths cross, but we no longer have much in common. This is natural for all people, not just gay people.

My advice would be to pursue the kind of life that you want. Pursue your interests, your goals, your hobbies, your areas of learning, and definitely your romantic interests, and definitely give your friends a chance to accept and be a part of that, but if they can't, or don't, accept those things then that's okay too, because you'll be being yourself and you'll meet people with those shared interests and goals who will naturally have a lot in common with you and accept you for who you are.


Just my thoughts,
Take care and have a great day biggrin.gif
Kevin
Hylas
Thanks Kevin! biggrin.gif

With the girl... I'm still not ready sad.gif

QUOTE
Why do you assume that his barkada did accept him?


Well. it's a university town. LOL. Everybody knows everybody else. And the teachers here are more often than not, sons and daughters of previous teachers. I know that was really his childhood friends because I knew most of their surnames (and where they live), and they were of the same age bracket. They're neighbors anyhow. tongue.gif It's actually the same situation with my batchmates. We're classmates, friends, and neighbors. tongue.gif
lonelygay51
I used to lie but the gay rumor mill hit me full force and I decided I might as well come out and so I did. But what works for you works for you and when you're ready, you'll be strong and brave. That sounded corny, huh?
Dalmatia
I didnt ever lie about myself being gay as such. If my friends called me gay, I'd agree, and if a guy was hot I'd say so. My friends just always thought I was joking laugh.gif But I told them the truth, that I really was gay, when I was ready, and they were still surprised! blink.gif
canundra
Lol Hylas. You're funny tongue.gif

I'm sort of in the same situation as you. Well, I used to be. I'm glad I'm not anymore.

I was the only guy in my class. Okay, well, not the only guy. The only other guy was someone who I didn't hang out with very much. The rest of my classmates were girls and throughout a large part of my high school career, my group of friends was basically a bunch of girls and the guy. Me.

They say hindsight is 20/20. Couldn't be more right. In college, as I look back at high school, I realize that many of the girls liked me, or still do. And I was completely oblivious to it. I still am oblivious when people are flirting with me. Oh, I recognize the really obvious people, but those who are more subtle...Well, I have no clue. And like you, I was dubbed the guy who "understood the girls". Which wasn't such a bad thing, but it sort of got annoying. Because all the girls came to me with their problems, and not being a girl myself and not having the same hormones, I was very much confused. Lol.

Thank God I managed to get away. I'm currently going to college thousands of miles away from home, and I'm enjoying it. You can create a completely different life from that back home. Although I'm not doing a very good job of it (I still have yet to come out to my friends here, even though I know that they'll be very supportive). But, yeah. As soon as you get the chance, as soon as you're able to, you should leave the Philippines. That is, if you still want to do so.

Being half Filipino, I can sort of relate with dealing with the culture. Both my parents come from very traditional Asian families. My mom the religious Filipina and my dad the traditional Chinese. Granted, they emigrated to a more Western society where it is generally more accepted, and they seem to have softened, but always, there is that streak of tradition that runs strong through them. I'm scared to come out to them, but I know I will eventually. I know that my parents love me. And me being gay probably won't change that. If you know your parents love you, and I'm sure they do, they still will if you come out to them.

And if you're comfortable with telling your best friend, and you think he'd be okay with it, go for it. I came out to my best friend a few months ago, and it was the most liberating thing ever. To finally have someone who knows your secret. Yeah. Felt good tongue.gif
Hylas
QUOTE
And like you, I was dubbed the guy who "understood the girls". Which wasn't such a bad thing, but it sort of got annoying. Because all the girls came to me with their problems, and not being a girl myself and not having the same hormones, I was very much confused. Lol.


LOL. *nods head* I used to just try my best to comfort them. Trying not to give them advice, but just make them feel better. wink.gif I never understood them at all, anyway. ohmy.gif And then they start trying to sink their fingers on me... blink.gif

QUOTE
As soon as you get the chance, as soon as you're able to, you should leave the Philippines. That is, if you still want to do so.


Of course I WANT to. LOL. rolleyes.gif I'm trying...

QUOTE
Being half Filipino, I can sort of relate with dealing with the culture.


Is it just me, or is there a surplus of Filipinos here, compared to other Asians? LOL Is it in our genes? blink.gif

QUOTE
And if you're comfortable with telling your best friend, and you think he'd be okay with it, go for it. I came out to my best friend a few months ago, and it was the most liberating thing ever. To finally have someone who knows your secret. Yeah. Felt good


I still don't know... Yeah. I will, I think. He's quite open-minded, so I think he'll take it well. tongue.gif
Tiger
QUOTE (Hylas @ December 4 2007, 01:33 AM) *
So first of all, I'm closeted. That basically means I lie about who I really am to people. sad.gif Ever since I found out I was gay, it's been a conscious effort for me to hold up a 'straight' exterior. Not that I have flamboyant tendencies... I don't. But somehow, I feel guilty about letting other people get the idea that I'm straight. Here are two instances in which the pangs of guilt are strongest:

1) In my previous course in college, BS Biology. I was classmates with this really awesome girl. She's very intelligent, funny, and very pretty to boot. She's also vulnerable in that she has lupus (which is an incurable, hereditary, autoimmune disease, if anyone here doesn't know), plus she has scoliosis from a bad fall as a child (though, it's not noticeable, but she had to wear neck and spine braces sometimes). She's also a genuinely sincere human being. Lovely in every way. Our other male classmates wouldn't even dare court her, knowing she's beyond the simple college sexual liaisons that they're after. In short - she's the kind of girl you marry.

Problem is... I think she fell in love with me. :S I'm being VERY careful with my words here. But honestly, that is what I felt. I have the reputation of being the artistic, weird, geeky, introverted, childish class clown both in high school and in college. I'm NOT attractive, I have a sort of inferiority complex, I'm the farthest thing from conceited, and I would never claim to be the object of affection of another unless it's very clear that that is so. But you do know when someone's flirting with you. It's a sort of gut feeling. I could still be wrong, but I really don't think so. Judge for yourself. The following are only SOME reasons as for why I think so.

You need to at least tell her that you just want to be friends. She might be mad at you, but at least you'll let her know there is not a future for the two of you. I'm not suggesting coming out to her unless there is no other alternative, but you cannot lead her on. That's unfair to her. It's not the first time something like this has happened. It's all too common.
corvus
QUOTE
One of my friends commented that "They're probably gay." with a wave of dismissal. As if he would never listen to them again if they did turn out to be gay (I have vague suspicions myself that RHCP are bi at least, lol) I just lamely replied, "So what?"


One thing to take into account is that a lot of straight people act so dismissively or even offensively not because they're homophobic or intolerant, but because they just never think about gay people. It would never occur to them that such an off-hand remark would really affect someone. Many of them just don't get what it is like to be gay. It's not their fault; I mean, why would they think of this sort of thing if it doesn't affect them directly?

QUOTE
Problem is... I think she fell in love with me.


That happened to me recently, and I never realized, which meant that I was very confused by the girl's behavior until another friend of mine spelled it out for me. (As it so happened, I came out to this girl BEFORE I realized she could be in love with me. I'm glad I didn't know then, because that could've been very awkward, harhar. So I don't know what to do really in your situation.)
Hylas
QUOTE
That's unfair to her. It's not the first time something like this has happened. It's all too common.


I don't lead her on. smile.gif And happily she stopped once again on her own accord. She's studying somewhere far away from where I am. Someplace where there are lots of hot guys. I bet she won't be able to resist. LOL

Seriously I avoided her. And it seems to be working atm. tongue.gif
Tiger
QUOTE (Hylas @ January 20 2008, 02:14 AM) *
I don't lead her on. smile.gif And happily she stopped once again on her own accord. She's studying somewhere far away from where I am. Someplace where there are lots of hot guys. I bet she won't be able to resist. LOL

Seriously I avoided her. And it seems to be working atm. tongue.gif

You may not have been intentionally leading her on, but sometimes women take kind words and actions to heart. Women like taking things out of context. Obviously you did something that she likes, or she wouldn't be interested. I'm glad that she's moved to a different area, because that's one less complication for you. Congrats! cool.gif
AFriendlyFace
QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ January 22 2008, 09:48 PM) *
You may not have been intentionally leading her on, but sometimes women take kind words and actions to heart.

Sometimes so do men wink.gif
QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ January 22 2008, 09:48 PM) *
Women like taking things out of context.

So do men

QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ January 22 2008, 09:48 PM) *
Obviously you did something that she likes, or she wouldn't be interested. I'm glad that she's moved to a different area, because that's one less complication for you. Congrats! cool.gif

Yes, congrats on that! I hope it all works out smile.gif

Take care all and have an awesome day!
-Kevin (the feminist tongue.gif)
DiSAsterouS
I can agree with the thing about being pushed away from "the rest of the guys." It happened for a little while last year. Anyway, I'm still not sure if I am or not, kinda making things weirder. I don't want to deny it all my life and then if I am gay then be like, I guess you were right! But at the same time, I don't want to be throuwn into a stereotype that I might not belong to. If I am straight then if every girl thinks that I am gay it is not going to work out so well. I have to say also that whenever I am pursuing a girl or whatever they are generally more comfortable around me, not that my friends are uncomfortable, but it's like "we have something to relate to" or whatever. I too have a good friend who likes me a lot. But even if I am straight then I know that I still do not want to date her. So I guess that's one plus side to my situation.

Advice: Even though I'm younger I know by ignoring someone it doesn't make things better. It will either really shoot her down emotionally, which is not good. Or it will make her want you more. Weird I know, but I tried ignoring the girl that likes me a lot. And then it only made her want me tenfold.

An accquaintance of mine who was gay dated my friend Mary for like two years, finally he just told her the truth, and she kept it a secret for two more years until he was ready. Now they are still best friends. So you might just want to tell her and ask her not to tell anyone. But that's up to you, not me.

Either way in my opinion, I wouldn't ignore her. It's got to be hard on the recieving end, and it kind of made me a little sad reading it.

Good luck though,

DSAS
FrenchCanadian
QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ January 22 2008, 11:48 PM) *
You may not have been intentionally leading her on, but sometimes women take kind words and actions to heart. Women like taking things out of context. Obviously you did something that she likes, or she wouldn't be interested. I'm glad that she's moved to a different area, because that's one less complication for you. Congrats! cool.gif


Don't generalize Tiger,,, men can just as much take things out of the context,,

Also DSAS is totally right,,, being ignored doesn't help,, if things aren't gonna happen, it's better if you know it from the start, and not "getting" it on a few days of being ignored
Tiger
QUOTE (AFriendlyFace @ February 6 2008, 07:39 PM) *
Sometimes so do men wink.gif

So do men


Yes, congrats on that! I hope it all works out smile.gif

Take care all and have an awesome day!
-Kevin (the feminist tongue.gif)

I know men do those things, but women are much more prolific about it. wink.gif
Benji
QUOTE (DiSAsterouS @ February 28 2008, 12:16 PM) *
I can agree with the thing about being pushed away from "the rest of the guys." It happened for a little while last year. Anyway, I'm still not sure if I am or not, kinda making things weirder. I don't want to deny it all my life and then if I am gay then be like, I guess you were right! But at the same time, I don't want to be throuwn into a stereotype that I might not belong to. If I am straight then if every girl thinks that I am gay it is not going to work out so well. I have to say also that whenever I am pursuing a girl or whatever they are generally more comfortable around me, not that my friends are uncomfortable, but it's like "we have something to relate to" or whatever. I too have a good friend who likes me a lot. But even if I am straight then I know that I still do not want to date her. So I guess that's one plus side to my situation.

Advice: Even though I'm younger I know by ignoring someone it doesn't make things better. It will either really shoot her down emotionally, which is not good. Or it will make her want you more. Weird I know, but I tried ignoring the girl that likes me a lot. And then it only made her want me tenfold.

An accquaintance of mine who was gay dated my friend Mary for like two years, finally he just told her the truth, and she kept it a secret for two more years until he was ready. Now they are still best friends. So you might just want to tell her and ask her not to tell anyone. But that's up to you, not me.

Either way in my opinion, I wouldn't ignore her. It's got to be hard on the recieving end, and it kind of made me a little sad reading it.

Good luck though,

DSAS



huh.gif ........I'm a little confused by your post here, are you posting or answering??
DiSAsterouS
QUOTE (Benji @ February 28 2008, 03:15 PM) *
huh.gif ........I'm a little confused by your post here, are you posting or answering??



Kind of both. Haha, sorry for any confusion.. laugh.gif
Benji
QUOTE (DiSAsterouS @ February 28 2008, 04:01 PM) *
Kind of both. Haha, sorry for any confusion.. laugh.gif



cool.gif ......Not a problem, hey, I hope these guys are helping you out, and I wish you the best of luck. I remember it wasn't easy being 16.
AFriendlyFace
QUOTE (TL The Writing Tiger @ February 28 2008, 01:51 PM) *
I know men do those things, but women are much more prolific about it. wink.gif

I would disagree! I think both genders are pretty equal in their capacity to misinterpret things! And if anyone is more likely to take kind words to heart and eat up compliments I think it's men. Anyway I hate generalizations based on gender thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif

QUOTE (DiSAsterouS @ February 28 2008, 10:16 AM) *
I don't want to be throuwn into a stereotype that I might not belong to. If I am straight then if every girl thinks that I am gay it is not going to work out so well.

You don't have to be thrown into a stereotype just because you're gay. Gay people have a very very wide range of personalities, interests, and behaviours. Anyone who uses stereotypes (whether they're based on sexuality, gender, race, religion, ethnicity or anything else) and thinks that they know a person is being really ignorant and likely to be very mistaken in quite a few ways.

As for worrying that if you're classified as "gay" before you're sure it'll put girls off...well that's partly true, but that's only half the picture. What about if you're classified as "straight" before you're sure? Aren't you worried that'll put guys off? There's nothing better or worse about being gay or straight. It just is. Being misclassified either way might be unfortunate but it wouldn't be the end of the world either!

I don't know if you intend to move around a lot, but if for example you're going somewhere else for college you could give "life as a gay person" a try. If you date a few guys and think "hmmm, no this isn't right for me", you can go back to girls when you graduate there. Also, if your city/area is fairly big you can probably try out both roles without really having everyone know. That's complicated of course, and there'd probably still be rumours, but the point is if you're confused about your sexuality you're selling yourself just as short by possibly being mislabeled as "straight" as you would be by being mislabeled as "gay".

Just my thoughts smile.gif
-Kevin
Tiger
QUOTE (AFriendlyFace @ February 28 2008, 03:34 PM) *
I would disagree! I think both genders are pretty equal in their capacity to misinterpret things! And if anyone is more likely to take kind words to heart and eat up compliments I think it's men. Anyway I hate generalizations based on gender thumbsdownsmileyanim.gif

You're right about compliments. If you want to really leave an impression, feed a man's ego. BTW, all people have their faults. I would never deny that.
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