HIV/AIDS is a scary reality, especially for the gay community, and I was wondering if you would knowingly sleep with someone who is HIV positive.

Personally, I think I would have to have very, very strong feelings for someone before I was willing to take that risk. I hate to say no, but I would have strong reservations about it.

Your thoughts?

Menzo

It wouldn't be something that I would do lightly, but I believe yes, I could have sex with someone who was HIV positive. It is unlikely to happen, though, because it would have to be someone I was deeply in love with.

I said maybe , but gosh that would be scary. I'd have to really really really love someone to take those kinds of health risks.

However, if I knew upfront that someone was HIV+, I'm not sure I would ever allow myself to get to the point where I would love them that much to take a risk. And let's say I was dating someone, and they told me their HIV+ after I've fallen in love (and after a significant amount of time), then I'm not sure how I'd feel.

tough question...

NO F_CKING WAY, ARE YOU CRAZY??

The question was not about having unprotected sex. It was just about having sex. I wouldn't have sex with someone who was HIV+ unless I was deeply in love with them. Even so, safe sex would still be a requirement.

However, as Vic has pointed out, it would be difficult to allow myself to fall that deeply in love with them -- which is a separate topic completely. Honestly, I think the only way that would work is if I had gotten to know someone, found myself falling for them and THEN started dating them -- only to learn they were positive. If they didn't tell me early on in the dating process, I would feel... not betrayed, but like that they had difficulty being honest with me.

Well for sure if I'd have sex with someone who's HIV positive it wouldn't just for sex,, it would be because there's something more, like if we'd be boyfriends. That being said,, it might be a shame to say, but is it likely that I'd date someone that's HIV positive,, not that highly.

and in that case the sexual stuff would be limited

I said maybe. If I was to become involved with someone who is HIV positive, I would hope that they would be honest enough to tell me up front. We could then proceed from there. Even if a relationship doesn't come about, at least there could be a new friendship started.

Jan

It is one thing to have a choice: to know that someone is infected and have the option of safe sex or walking away.

Unfortunately, this is the exception and not the rule. Unless you are very careful, or even if you are very careful, you could be have sex with someone who is HIV+ and is either unaware or in denial.

Only and only, if I really love him/her.

And does safe sex fully eliminate the risk of getting HIV virus?

Ieshwar

.
Same for me !
Yes it does, but safe sex in this case follows a lot of rules, not only condoms. As I said before, from my experiences with members of my family, it is possible to have a happy sex life with somebody you love when you are HIV positive.

No.

But yes, if I love him and he contracted it later.. then it's a maybe. :S

If I were the one HIV positive tho, I'd only date other HIV positive people. I won't risk the chance of uninfected people getting it, just because I love them. More so because I love them.

Same here. One of the really nighmarish things about HIV is the possibility of having it without knowing and infecting someone you care about (assuming that you care about your sex partners- something that is not a given except in people with character-like most folks on this board).

If I found out that I had given it to someone, it would destroy me.

The answer to Ieshwar's question is no. That needs to be said, but that said, safe sex almost eliminates the risk (which is not the same as removing it).
For example, Condoms can fail. The problem here as that even though the risk is small, it is also cumulative; even a tiny risk, taken enough times, can happen.

I could have sex with someone who is HIV positive, but it would take a long while for me to be comfortable enough to take that step and a lot of research done on my part and all that. I wouldn't hold it against the person or not date them for that reason or anything like that. It is a scary thing to do, but there are ways to protect yourself and many people can have good sex lives and relationships with someone who is HIV positive.


Krista

There's no question in my mind that I would not knowingly have sex with someone HIV positive. I know they say condoms are nearly 100% effective at stopping the transmission of HIV... I don't care. If the person has HIV, they're not having consensual sex with me. I see it as simply too dangerous for me. I may love and support a person with HIV... I can hug and cuddle with someone with HIV, but no way will I have sex with them.



HOLD UP!

People who have HIV are still putting each other at risk by having sex with each other. There are many different strains of HIV, with different levels of resistances for various drugs. Drugs prescribed to treat HIV work for a period of time before they will not work anymore. That drug will never work for that person again. If that person passes the virus on to someone else, the drug will not work for that person because the strain will already be resistant to it. The only way it would work out so that people with HIV could have sex with each other without putting each other at risk, is if they both have precisely the same strain with precisely the same resistances.

still. If HIV positive people practice safe sex with each other..? Meh, being lonely all your life is way more difficult than dying young, imo.



yes. Not being morbid, but HIV is kinda like getting on a shortlist to AIDS and hence death. If I'm with someone and I contracted HIV, I'd take it as my prerogative to stop anything that would expose him to a risk of contagion from me. I just wished everybody was like that. As it is now, some people actually KNOWINGLY transmit it in casual sex with strangers. Kinda like Typhoid Mary. That's why if I would have a partner, I'd stress fidelity for both of us and work to keep it that way.

My thoughts and attitude is very similar to yours, Menzo. However, I can almost certainly say that ultimately it would be a no because...


Exactly!


I think that's a very good attitude!



There's a very big difference here IMO. I think this risk, if taken with safe sex measures, would definitely be tolerable.

Anyway, I hate to say that I wouldn't because I think that's a bad attitude (assuming safe sex practices), but I wouldn't.


Take care everyone and have a great day!
Kevin

My answer is no, as the question just said 'sex'.

If I have very deep feelings for that person and have safe, protected sex, then I have no problems....otherwise.....

Somehow my best friend is doing it unprotected with one and he knows.

He was f**king lucky that his test turned out negative but he went to do it again after it. Now it's not clear.

But his life and choice. I won't think less of him. I woud just prefer that he be clean.


As for me, I'm too paranoid. So no. Besides, it doesn't matter much now since I already have someone for almost five years now.

Oh my gosh!

None of my business certainly, but I think perhaps your friend does deserve to be thought less of. I'm certainly not condemning people with HIV, or people that love them anyway, but what your friend is doing sounds pretty stupid to me, and I would think most HIV+ people would agree.

Unfortunately, there ARE people who want to get HIV. I'm not saying this is the case here, but it's possible.

ya sadly that's true, I don't know why they do,, there's quicker way to kill yourself, maybe those that really are looking to get HIV want to get some attention.

Dude, hell no. I don't care how much I "love" somebody. I kind of like being alive every now and then.

HIV would be a complete, unavoidable, total death sentence in every capacity. I'm aware that there are treatments and blahblahblah, but no. Any relationship with anyone who did not have HIV from that point on would be impossible. Even if they thought they could take the risk of having sex with someone with HIV, I wouldn't be able to allow them to do it if I had even an inkling of a regard for their life. I would know that, barring insane medical breakthroughs, I would die a slow, painful, debilitating death.

So, NO. Don't care about the specifics. It just ain't gonna happen for anyone.

Wow


I must say I'm surprised.

First off, let me say that I totally understand and respect everyones opinions here, as everybody is entitled to them.

What I find a little shocking, is some of the comments that have been posted here. I have been hoping that someone who is HIV + possibly commenting in this forum. Unfortunately if there was someone, I don't think they would be too comfortable doing so. I imagine that since we are a group of people attracted to GLBT writing, that there must be some members that are dealing with AIDS on a daily basis, either with it, or with someone that has it. Maybe we should all go back and look at our postings and see how we may have come across to someone in their shoes.

I respect the honesty of everyone, but unfortunately I do see some attitudes that haven't really changed over the last twenty years. I guess the original question was a personal question, so people are expressing personal opinions. It just pains me a bit that we may be excluding some members by expressing those opinions without taking their position into thought.

Okay, enough of my babbling. I did not post in order to make anyone feel bad about anything they said or feel, but just posted on the feeling that I have got over the last while in this forum. Please don't change your opinions, or feelings based on what I have said. All I ask is that everyone educate themselves and learn as much about this disease (plague?) that has swept the world.

Thanks for letting me ramble.

Steve

It is not in his case of course.

But...long ago I learnt to...let and live.

I am not his mother. I told him what I had to and let him whatever he wants. I'm happy enough to have my say.

Yes. I know it may come across as callous to HIV+ people, but it's really just the sad truth. For me, I apologize if it came across wrong.

First of all, NO, I, myself, will not shun HIV+ people. They're going through something very difficult as it is. Going through life with the constant threat of AIDS hanging over them. And I can't possibly deny them the simple pleasures of having someone close to you without them shying away as if you were a leper.

But when it comes to contact that would DEFINITELY put me at high risk of infection (such as sex in this case), I would draw the line. There's being a good person, and then there's being just plain stupid.

HIV is an epidemic. And as such it has to be contained, not encouraged to spread further just because of libido. If you really love each other though and one is HIV+, then you can risk it if you really want to. But be prepared for the consequences and the responsibilty.

Containment, that is all we can do now. In the times of the Black Death for instance, family shunned family, lovers ran away from each other, parents abandon children... The choice of whether to save yourself or trying to save another is always a VERY difficult choice to make. And yes, most will run rather than risk their own death. Not surprising, this is just human self-preservation at work, not in any way connected to the plight of the other person. Take note that NO ONE would choose to desert you if it was only a question of love, but life itself is involved... There's just too much at stake.

That is why I encourage HIV+ people to be conscious of this fact themselves. Do not place another person in a position of having to choose when you know they will ultimately lose. Take steps yourself to keep others safe.

This has never been a perfect world... In case of those who had been unwittingly infected, I beg you not to let others experience what you had gone through. I have seen videos and pictures of children with AIDS who had contracted it from people who donated to blood banks possibly with the full knowledge that they were infected. Don't turn into that kind of monster.

All we can do for the moment is hope for a breakthrough in medicine and be there for each other as much as possible. BUT, just be responsible people, infected or not infected.

Condoms can break. I don't care. I could not have sex with someone who was HIV+. HIV is my greatest fear. I could never knowingly put myself at such a risk.

Thank you Steve, I agree. I've had this discussion with my friends in a club when a rumor was started that someone we all knew had been dating someone with Aids. I don't know how the rumor got started, but I know I was the only one that said I wouldn't be too afraid or against the idea to not have a loving and healthy relationship with someone who was HIV positive. Anyway, I wouldn't want to know anyone's medical history, then hold it against them after I did know it. It is a terrible thing to have, but what's worse is seeing the lack of support. As it is one thing to have a preference and an opinion and another to act out negatively.


Krista

I answered no.

the risks are just to high. I mean, it's not like herpes; HIV will kill you.

The worst part is, I couldn't even be friends with them.

let me explain...I had a friend that was diagnosed with cancer in her mouth. She had surgery then six months of radiation treatments. Four months into her treatments she needed a ride to the hospital and I took her.

to see this woman go from a energetic cheerful person with an amazing sense of humor to a worn down, radiation burnt, husk of her former self; was just too much for me ...I couldn't even handle seeing her during her last days

there is just no way I could knowingly befriend someone I knew was going to slowly die in front of me, letting them think I would be there till the end, when I couldn't be sure I could live up to those expectations

Now...thats's a rather loaded question. It depends on who it is. If I loved the one that I was with and I knew made sure that they were safe during sex, then maybe. It would depend on the level of trust we had with each other and where we were.

ok some thngs I would like to point out... having done some community work for an aids-prevention group, I kinda know a bit about the subject. I was part of a drama play on homophobia and we talked about AIDS in the process, I got to know someone who is HIV+ and he's doing just fine and probably will be for a good long time

1st, people that have HIV now can expect to live a normal life for at least 10 minimum before it turns into AIDS, most likely now it can take 20-25 years and some people will never get the HIV to AIDS transfer so they can still live anormal life, and with today medecine they're making meds that are much easier to take and with less side-effects so there's hooe for a cure in a near future... still the meds are not a cure it's only fighting the HIV not killing it...

Ok when it comes to the infection rate it all depends on what act of sex is done, i mean if all that is done kissing and giving and receiving blowjobs then you're keeping the risk at a minimum and that's if you decided to not use condoms as few cases have been reported... (and yes you COULD get HIV only by kissing him... ok it would take about a LITER of saliva to get it though but just wanted to get that out)but still I want to point out one thing, use condoms!!!

now when you go into F***ing people giving or receiving the risk is greater if you're receiving than if you're giving... now doing it bb is just plainly stupid... no matter if the other person is HIV+ or not... i mean you got herpes, hepatitis, gonorhea... name the rest... so key word here always use condoms,

Would I have sex just for the purpose of sex wiith someone who's HIV+? maybe , I don't have sex with just anybody in the 1st place but if i decided to do it , I would make sure to have a rubber nearby and even then i'm not sure i would go all the way.

Would I go out with someone who's HIV+ ? yes, I mean if I love the person, I love the person for who he is, not what his status is... would I think about it though ? yes I sure would. ok we would need to make a budget for condoms though

now did I stress the word condoms enough ?

Jason aka Moonwolf

Some comments just made me...sad. But would I? Yeah. If I thought I loved them. I mean, in all likelyhood, I probably already have. So at least you know right?

I've read this thread and thought about it, and read it again....

I think there are a few things to point out here before I can answer --

are we talking "sex" or "intercourse"?

intercourse is one act of sex, but there are so many others that do not include penetration of any sort that leads me to believe that a healthy and active sex life is totally possible and relatively safe for all parties with the proper precautions (like condoms at all times).

I also would have to consider at what point in the relationship did the person point out that they were HIV+?

If we had been exclusive for while already and this was not new test results... then I might have some serious issues, but if we were headed toward exclusivity and it was revealed.... or there were new test results.... I might be shocked but I think what we already had building would survive and maybe thrive.

Also I think it would depend on the other person's attitude toward sex, promiscuity, and above all else... medication.

All that said... I think it might be possible under the right circumstance to engage in sexual activitiy with someone who is HIV+, but the chances of me finding myself in those circumstance, I believe, is very very slim.

Loaded question indeed. This whole thread is thought-provoking and it really brings to light some opinions/existing stigma of HIV/AIDs.

Personally, I don't know what my answer would be...yet. Everyone always has an answer when asked some serious question, and in their heart and mind they think they know what they'd do in that situation, but in my opinion- a question like that can only be answered when you're crossing that bridge. When you're confronted with that scenario and have to think long and hard. Even if you're in love with that person, it doesn't mean you're willing to go into that scary territory. My sister once said she wouldn't even continue dating someone if they had herpes. And I asked what if she really, really cared for him, and she said no. It was a deal breaker. It all depends, I guess. Even if we're not all willing to admit it, any sexual disease, it's a turn off.

It's hard to think of what we'll do in that situation. The risks are obvious, which would make most people lean towards being cautious or flat out saying no. Or if you're really in love, I could see how people would make exceptions and be very careful with the use of condoms, which is a wise choice no matter what, like Jason has stated. You can have a sexual relationship with a HIV positive person, but be extremely careful. I read an article a long time ago and her boyfriend had a transfusion when younger and contracted HIV. His girlfriend, and then later wife (?) stayed with him, but they are careful and she has to get tested every once in awhile. Not sure about the details, but this just shows that it can be done, for any HIV positive people out there reading this thread.

If I really loved someone, I don't think I could say that I would not have sex with them. Yeah, the risks are there, and it's not something to play around with. But if this is someone that you care for, someone that you want to be with, I think you'd want to be with them anyway. I think it would be their responsibility as a good person to want to protect you by all means necessary, though. Hmm. It's a toughie. To put myself in that position... what if I was HIV positive? Would I let someone I love have sex with me knowing that there's a chance I could pass it to them?

That's a good question, Richie! I think if I were positive I would only date other positive people.

I guess it depends if both parties really know what they want to do and are willing to take the necessary precautions. Personally, I'd have reservations about having sex with someone, knowing I could pass it to them by accident, but if they're willing, and we talk it through, perhaps it's something I could get over. I don't know. Tough questions, here!!!!

Ideally, it would be great to only date other positive people, but what are the chances of meeting someone who is positive and hitting it off. Maybe at some kind of support group meeting, but that extremely limits the dating pool.

Life is about gaining knowledge. Knowledge comes from experience. Experience comes with making mistakes. Without each one of these, the circle is incomplete.

I choose this to start this lengthy post, as I am going to share something personal to me, and I hope it does not come over as preachy, or arrogant.

I posted earlier when I was becoming personally upset with some comments that were being posted on this subject. Since it is something that I can relate to, it was a little frustrating. I fully understood that people are entitled to their opinion, and should express it. What came to mind at the early stages of this discussion was how 30 years ago we literally did not have a community like we do today. Just the fact that you were gay meant usually that it had to be hidden, or relegated to an area that wasn’t main stream. There was no internet, gay bars were raided often, and we were considered to be deviants and not trustworthy. What I didn’t understand now, is how as a community we could be faced by a new challenge, HIV/Aids, and we the persecuted for so many years, could treat people (to be honest, mainly from our community) the way we were so wrongly treated ourselves. Hopefully this explains why I am posting once again on the subject.

So if you are faced with a question of could you have sex with someone HIV positive, or even could you love someone HIV positive, I just ask that you think the question through fully. I believe the vast majority of you have. If you can honestly answer the question in less than a second, it most likely means you haven’t really thought about it.

With my previous post, right after I posted it I had a sinking feeling that I may be ruffling some feathers, and stepped out of bounds on what was appropriate for discussion. I went so far as immediately messaging CJ and Kevin, asking them if they thought I did, could they remove the post before more people saw it? Thankfully both suggested to me that I leave it the way it is. I’m still grateful for their advice.

First off, after that post, I received one message from someone asking if I was positive. I can say honestly no I am not. Thankfully. I get tested every six months and practice safe sex with a condom to minimize the chances of having to state otherwise.

The reason that I can admit that I could love someone, and have sex with someone who is HIV positive, is because I did. Here is that story.

Twenty years ago, like I said before the Internet, school groups, dating services, bar districts, social clubs, the only places to really meet other gay men (in my case) was limited to a few bars, adult theatres, cruising parks, or talking on the phone with chat lines that charged $1.50 a minute. Needless to say, when I started peeking out of the closet, I was using one of the above.

I met a guy, who seemed like your average Joe, and we seemed to click immediately. To make this post shorter let’s say that over the next while, we got intimate. Since I was still very inexperienced, I let him make most of the decisions, and I trusted him. I still thank god that he was very responsible and I learned about safe sex from my first boyfriend, which was him.

Yes, we were dating and having sex. Funny thing is, this was even after I found out he was HIV positive. I consider myself a somewhat smart person with some intelligence (although this could be debated), yet I chose to continue on a relationship with someone who I found out was positive. Why? Because I loved him and he loved me.

Now I decided to add in here that at first I did not know he was HIV positive. He did not tell me. It was after a week or so, and maybe what you would call some heavy petting sessions (which I’m sure I wanted more, yet he held me back) that I asked him why we couldn’t do more. He was 100% honest with me then, and gave me the risks involved, what options there were to minimize the risk, what he would be willing to do, and what he was willing to let me do. He also told me he would totally understand if I chose to cut things off. I think at this point I was falling for him, and weighed the risks, and fully new what I was getting into, but was willing to see where it would go.

So upon self evaluation looking back, it may be judged as a mistake. But I honestly can’t convince myself that it was.

Our relationship continued on for about 7 months, and then we both mutually agreed to break it off. I can honestly say that the fact that he was positive, and I wasn’t, had no impact on that decision at all. It was more about us finding we were more opposites in things then the similarities could make up for.

Twenty years later, he is one of my best friends in the world. Not a week goes by that we don’t talk to each others. Our friendship has only grown stronger and stronger over the years. In some ways we are like each others guardian angles looking out for each others.

Now I have always known that there could come a day that his health goes down hill and I lose one of my closest friends. But after 25 years of living with the disease, he is still well, and no one knows if he will die of old age first. But the strongest thing I feel about this is that my life would not be as complete if I had never taken the chance to get to know him.

I know moonwolf mentioned that he has a friend with HIV/Aids , and has no regrets for it. Possibly this is the reason he has learned more about the disease than the average person I would even go so far as to say we are most scared of what we don’t know. Why not make an effort to get to know someone who is positive, not with the intention of dating or having sex with them, but to find out that they are just the same as you and me with feelings, emotions and problems. If you gain a friend out of the experience, then all the better. Yes, they may die, but really how is it any different than losing a friend in a traffic accident or any other life threatening disease? Do we stop making friends and getting to know new people for the simple fact that they may die some day?

I do believe we judge people who are HIV/Aids positive in a different light than we do others with potentially life threatening diseases. My hope is that by reading this post, you all stop and really think about the subject for more than a second or two. If you choose that in no way could you ever have sex with someone HIV positive, then at least you know you have logically thought it out. That is all I ask. Don’t let media and homophobic attitudes pull you down with them.

Once again, I hope this doesn’t come across as preaching, but just some insight into my feelings on the subject, and just the slightest possibility the feelings of someone who is positive.

Most of all, thank you all of you. You have given me a place to express how I feel.

I’ll finish off with how I opened:

Life is about gaining knowledge. Knowledge comes from experience. Experience comes with making mistakes. Without each one of these, the circle is incomplete.

Steve

Beautifully said, Steve. I think we can all learn a great deal from that post.

Thank you for sharing it with us,
Kevin

I agree -- beautifully said, Steve


Thank you.

As Steve say :

For everybody, opinion about HIV depends a lot from your own experiences with HIV/Aids positive people. In one word, you can't have a clear opinion if you have no experience ! This is IMO the lesson Steve brought us. To be gay is not so easy, imagine the life of a HIV/Aids positive gay, twice rejected ! Any how, at least 30 % of the voters said yes, and that's a good average.

For me the sex is always in the context of a relationship, since I don't do it otherwise. That said, I couldn't care less what my partner's health situation is, because I'd want to have sex with him to celebrate the love in our relationship.

I'd take sensible precautions for sure, but it wouldn't bother me unduly, since I do that with all partners anyhow. There's more risk of contracting serious STDs than HIV because many of them don't require transmission of fluids.

I don't care what someone's HIV status is and I'd think it kind of daft to be told it up front, because people's health issues are personal - I wouldn't expect to be told someone has cancer, say, or is diabetic, or a leper, unless they wanted to share.

As for the comments about being scared - why? You've got more chance of being in an auto accident.

I guess some would be worried that they couldn't cope with the drugs regime if they contracted HIV, but for me that's a non-issue.

I've always had the attitude that the only certainty in life is death. It isn't a matter of avoiding it, just a matter of when. It could be tomorrow as I cross the road whilst distracted by a cute guy.

I have an ex boyfriend who is now 23. We were dating when he was 18. I found out quite by chance he is HIV positive when he was 20. If it weren't for the fact he can't help cheating on his partners, I'd have no problem being in a relationship with him and having sex.

I live my life to get maximum enjoyment now, not to prolong it indefinitely, and if that involves having sex with someone I love and they are HIV positive, so what?

Steve, I'm crying here just because of that beautiful sentiment which I fully share and endorse!

Good on ya, man, you're a star.

I'm sorry and I mean no offense, Tris, but what unhealthy attitudes!


I was with you right to this point. You're right that there are lots of other serious STDs out there and some of them are difficult or impossible to prevent with a condom. I also laud you on assuring us that you would take the precautions but:


I completely disagree with you here. I think the ideal is definitely to be told upfront (as Steve's partner did). I also think it's that person's responsibility, and regardless of whether or not we used a condom I'd be mad as hell if he hadn't told me. Discussing sexual history and health status is a very VERY important aspect of safe sex.

Certainly it's not any of your business if the guy is say, your bank teller, or dry cleaner, but if he's your boyfriend it is your business. It becomes your business as soon as he takes on a role in your life which could conceivably spread any illness he has to you without proper precautions being taken.

Thus, you're right it's not really your business if he's a diabetic or has cancer, BUT it is your business if he's a leper because leprosy is also contagious. I might argue that since in this hypothetical instance the guy in question is your boyfriend (and not just a casual hook-up), that he also ought to mention the cancer and diabetes since even though you can't get them, their treatment and the toll they take on him may indeed have some effect on relationship.

This is particularly true if you're drive with your eyes closed.


It's this attitude, particularly in young gay men, which leads them into quite a few very unhealthy and dangerous situations. Of course you're going to die some day, but take care of yourself in the meantime so that you can have healthy, happy days ahead of you in your later days or if you like merely happier, healthier days today while you're waiting to get hit by that bus as you cross the road.


I certainly have no objection to you weighing the risk and deciding that sex and a deep connection with someone you love makes sex with an HIV person something that's worth it to you. What I do object to is the "live hard, die young" rationale that you seem to be using.

In most cases "maximizing your enjoyment" doesn't have to come at the expense of your safety or your health. I for one have a hell of a lot of fun and take good care of myself. You know what that means? I intend to still be having a hell of a lot of fun when I'm in my 90s.

And if I do get hit by the bus or a tree falls on me or something I'm not really out anything. I haven't made very many or very serious concessions for my health. For the most part it's simply making a series of small, but effective smart choices which actually lead to more short to medium range happiness, health, and all around feeling good, than the bad ones would have anyway.

Sorry if it seems as though I'm attacking you, that was not my intent. I'm all for your right to live your life however you see fit and in this case it seems to be more about your motives and attitudes that I personally would find objectionable than your activities because you did state that you would have safe sex, which I approve of, and having safe sex with someone you love who has HIV is also something I would easily support.

Instead I guess I just felt compelled to share my views with you because 1) I'm a loud mouth, 2 ) it might give you something to think about in many other areas which might benefit you, but primarily 3 ) I want to present "the other side of the coin" to any casual reader who might make decisions about his or her own life based on something we've said in this thread.

Anyway I hope I didn't offend and I will butt out now, but I hope I have given you something to think about.

Take care (please)
-Kevin

.............You know, I'm with Kevin here, your reply is "scary".

I didn't think Tristan's reply was "scary".

While I may disagree with some of his opinions, I also recognise that it's his life and he is not going in blindly. He has his views on what he considers to be important in a relationship and I respect that.

I also don't think he has a "party hard, die young" attitude. He certainly appears to want live life to its fullest while he's young, but that's a common attitude from what I've seen. The "die young" part is, I think, putting words into Tristan's mouth. He's never said that. Having a lower level of self-preservation at a young age doesn't mean they want to die young -- it means that they have a lower sense of what is risky behaviour. That's not unusual and typically changes as they get older.

You totally miss the point, I think. My attitude came about as a result of a lot of healthy consideration and debate with myself and others.

I spent a long time self-analysing my thoughts on the whole HIV issue - probably more than two years - and I started from the point of view that I didn't want to be near someone who was HIV+.

However, through analysing my instinctive reactions I came to realise that they were irrational, often illogical, and if I followed through on them I'd be as bad as some of the people I aspire not to emulate in terms of bigotry, prejudice, and so on.

On a parallel but totally unrelated track I spent a long time - again, years - working out my view about life and it's value to me. That started because I was fed up with the way human society is becoming so self-centered: the me, me, me, attitude of selfishness with no consideration of the overall situation.

They may be brutal, but the facts are there are over 6,000,000,000 people on this planet, many of them struggling to live even half-way decent lives, they live with all sorts of ills; those people especially live precarious lives with many more risks than those of us who enjoy the privilege of living in so-called civilised modern societies.

Unfortunately, instead of being seen as a privilege we should be grateful for the privileges are taken for granted and as time goes on there's a received wisdom that we have to continually reduce risks, to the point now where it impinges on peoples ability to follow through on the choices they make and attitudes they take.

All that flies in the face of reality, which is that the human species itself is resilient but individuals are neither important nor irreplaceable - in fact each of us is as disposable as the wrapper on a microwave meal.

Sure, the loss of one person is troubling to those immediately around them, but in a wider context it is not in the least bit important.

I came to realise that in the great scheme of things, that although I enjoy my life to the full, I'm not important. I lost the arrogance of thinking it was vital to preserve my life and lifestyle at all costs. Since then I've not been concerned with doing so-called risky things if I choose to. That doesn't mean I take reckless risks - I always consider things very carefully - but it does mean I discount my own infinite well-being in some circumstances.

Much of my attitude can be attributed to a farm upbringing where being in touch with the realities of the fragility of life in all its forms is more in your face. That has been lost by 'civilised' societies now they are so predominantly urban.

I've found over time that my attitude means I appreciate every aspect of life, myself, my friends and people around me all the more. The simplest and most trivial things astound and amaze me and every day I think about how privileged I am to live such a rich and fulfilling life.

All that folds back into the issue of HIV. As I said, it's almost a non-issue to me, but that's because I've done my research and know myself well.

As I said at the beginning of my first post on this, it would be in the context of a loving relationship for me, and if my partner chose not to tell me his HIV status was positive when we got together it wouldn't bother me one bit.

I fall in love with a person's spirit and soul, how they treat other people and deal with themselves, and how they return my love. I don't fall in love with their health status.

I can't imagine how callous it must feel to those people who are HIV positive, maybe unsure of themselves, who feel they are a part of a caring 'community' of other gay people, and then suddenly discover these strident reactions to their condition. I know it must be something of a kick in the teeth, and it's something I wouldn't wish anyone to have to experience.

Okay, I was hoping to avoid allowing my age to come out and I deliberately obscured it on my profile, because I *hate* how people make snap judgements of others and their opinions based on it. I prefer to work purely on the basis of what someone says, and how they conduct themselves.

I'm 42 - you know, as Douglas Adams said: The answer to Life, the Universe, and Everything!

Now, how does *that* change your view of my attitude to life, and how well I've thought it out?

............No it doesn't, perhaps of what you said here;

QUOTE (Tristan Jaimes @ February 27 2008, 10:40 AM) I don't care what someone's HIV status is and I'd think it kind of daft to be told it up front, because people's health issues are personal - I wouldn't expect to be told someone has cancer, say, or is diabetic, or a leper, unless they wanted to share.

and here;

I have an ex boyfriend who is now 23. We were dating when he was 18. I found out quite by chance he is HIV positive when he was 20. If it weren't for the fact he can't help cheating on his partners, I'd have no problem being in a relationship with him and having sex.


I would have a serious problem with someone I planned to be intimate with and they neglected to be honest enough with me to inform me of that they carried a life threatening diease they could pass on to me.

Unfortunately, part of understanding someone includes taking into account the context in which they live. That includes understanding the social environment they exist in (eg. their peer group). I understand why you've said that and I agree that a lot of people do make snap judgements, but a persons age IS something that helps you to understand them.


I stand by my original statement -- you're still young (says the guy who turns 45 this year).


Which brings me back to my original point. Your age IS relevant because it shows you've had the opportunity for life experiences that give you a well rounded maturity and appreciation of life. If there is ONE stereotype that can be generally applied to teenagers, it is that they don't generally have the breadth of life experiences that older people have. There are exceptions to that, of course, but overall the older a person, the more experiences they have that can be brought to bear on an issue.

That doesn't make them any wiser that a teenager, though It just gives them a broader base on which to try to make decisions. They're still perfectly capable of being idiots and making wrong decisions I know -- I've done enough of both in my time.....