Ok so I'm really not out and until two weeks ago I've never been in a relationship or even been involved with someone where we both know we have feelings for each other. And I was FINE with that. I was pleased to have a life prepared whereby I would never find myself getting romantic with anyone, though I am slowly coming out to people.

Then along comes a cute boy, my friend for two years and one of the few people I manage to both like and be attracted to. He's out. He never shows interest in me, nor have I told him I'm gay. Then we're watching a movie and he goads me into cuddling with him! AAAGH! Well of course I couldn't resist. It felt nice. We talked but not much. Then over the course of two weeks we hung out and cuddled some more and even went on a date sort of thing. And he kissed me. It was all pretty awkward and I wasn't very good at any of it, the physical stuff or the emotional connecting stuff.

Here's the weird part. I slowly started to sense that he wasn't really interested in me. Idunno when or how exactly, I'm oblivious like that. Over only two weeks. 1st weekend and he's kissing me and trying to encourage me to show affection in public. 2nd weekend and I feel he's avoiding me and otherwise giving me the sense he doesn't feel attracted to me anymore. I guess I'm a bad kisser or he just saw a side of me he didn't like. I'm not surprised. I'm not meant to connect with people that way and I was FINE with the fact until he pulled his stunt.

So he avoids telling me he's not attracted to me any more, but I slowly come to my senses and realize it. I confront him and he finally owns up and says he's sorry, sometimes you get to know someone better and your feelings about them change. I understand that. Not a problem. All is forgiven.

So at first I am still thinking it was awfully sweet of him to keep trying to show interest in me so he doesn't ruin my first mutual attraction thingy. Then a more sobering thought comes to me. I don't think he ever liked me that way, he was just trying to get me to come out of my shell, to try out romance. I resent that! I was fine with things the way they were. He took away my claim to fame, of being one of the few people who acknowledge and embrace their sexuality without ever really feeling the need to act on it. My resolve never to live a sexual life has actually INCREASED because of this, because my first experience was with someone I now recognize as having been apathetic about it.

So I'm fine. I'm really not hurt. I have no other unresolved issues with the guy. And I am a little more ready to be open with my friends about my sexuality. But I think I'm annoyed. He patronized and manipulated me. He decided he, not I, knew what's best for me. He ignored what I had decided and was VERY SATISFIED WITH regarding my future with my sexuality. I LIKED these thoughts JUST FINE and he decided they weren't good for me and tried to use my instincts to get me to leave them behind. I forgive the wrong, of course, but I don't know if I can ever enjoy his company again after this.

Go ahead, tell me how wrong I am. I need it.

As much as you would probably love being told you're wrong, I can't say it. Because you're not wrong. You were happy being apathetic towards relationships, and I can understand that. In fact, he was wrong in doing this to you. Not only does it mess with you, it messes with your world, your self confidence, messes somewhat with your emotions, and last, but most importantly, your friendship with him.
He shouldn't have done so. It's like forcing you to come out of the closet and then ditching you to handle the fall out on your own. It's not right and very uncool.
Anyways, now that I've ranted a bit on the subject, I hope that someday you both can talk about this incident and get things out in the open and hopefully get your friendship right again.

Men are notorious for sending mixed signals, and if anyone does not like me using this generalization, too bad. I happen to be a man, and I have been guilty a time or two myself, but I would never take it to that level. Kissing to me is something that should be meaningful. I cannot just kiss anyone. I don't blame you for being upset.

It sounds like he had you pegged regardless of you not being out to him. It also sounds like he reacted, either consciously or unconsciously, to signals you were giving off.

It's interesting you say you couldn't resist. Why? Later in your post you said you were quite happy with the status quo.


At the point he acted, from what you've said, he didn't know what you had decided since you hadn't come out to him. If his gaydar was pinging when you were around maybe he thought you needed a nudge. The fact you didn't resist would have given him some confidence in that assumption initially.


He didn't know those thoughts, did he? He did what came naturally in many ways. Maybe you've reached a point where those thoughts need testing and re-evaluating?

Why wouldn't you enjoy his company? Because of the thoughts and doubts he will now provoke in you when you are around him? Because he made an innocent misjudgment which your reaction did nothing to rebuff?


That's not unusual so don't feel it's a reason to reject it now or in the future. Especially when you've got conflicting emotions, thoughts and hormones, it can be difficult to let-go and let things happen naturally. Like anything, practice makes perfect. Adolescence has a reputation for being awkward and embarrassing for just this kind of reason! Many people cringe at the thought of the things they did or didn't do the first few times they got involved with someone else.



Seeing as you've confronted him over the episode it shows you've got some guts, so I'd suggest doing it once more and asking if the reasons you imagine here are correct or not. I'd suspect he was more put off by confusing signals you gave off, if your thoughts here are representative of how you think and feel, rather than because of anything specific.


Sometimes we all go through periods where being single and non-sexual is the best thing for us. Some choose it, for some it just happens. Generally the root cause is either an intense passion for something else that precludes relationships, or some deep-felt hurt that we're trying to bury.

I disagree totally with your assertion - people by their nature and upbringing are MEANT to connect with others. It's only through those connections we survive and thrive. Your current perspective probably doesn't allow you to see it, but my prediction is that within a couple of years - and probably sooner rather than later - you'll have a revelation on this and look back wondering how you could have thought this.


...continuing in the next post since the forum prevents the number of quotes I have made...

... continuation...



This is something you'll learn as life progresses. Oftentimes friends do what they think you need, rather than what you actually want. Usually it is because they don't consider things from your perspective, but theirs, and therefore do the things they'd want if they were in your situation. It leads to some interesting arguments and fights between friends It doesn't make them less of a friend, but you have to understand most times people's motivations are driven by their perceptions of how life should be, not yours.


I'm intrugued by your reasons for this. In my experience the root of such feelings is usually a fear of being hurt, or of loss, or of being embarrassed or humiliated or not measuring up. My thoughts right now are that whatever you do, it would help if you were able to identify and acknowledge to yourself why you think this way.


Really? You're not unbalanced by how easily he shook your world up, even though you thought you had it all sorted out?


That's good to hear.


Are you sure about that? If he didn't know your thoughts on the issue how could he have? Are you sure you're not projecting onto him some of the things you are always on guard against - aren't these a part of the reason you hold your current 'no contact' views?


In these situations there's rarely a right or wrong, there's just misunderstanding and lack of communication that adds up to incorrect assumptions on all sides, which in turn lead to unexpected actions and reactions.

Maybe the way you see things currently is right for you now. In six months... a year... who knows? In a short space of time you'll have a lot of new experiences that'll provoke thoughts and emotions you never expected to have.

The main thing is, try not to treat things as black and white issues. Accept that things will change and allow yourself to reconsider frequently in the light of new experience. Don't hold it against others that they want you to discover some of the joys of life they experience and are anxious to share because they feel so good.

Tris.

Once more, Tristan, I must bow at your feet for another insightful and wonderful post.
Dear, Tristan is right on quite a few points, and you should really think about what he says.
I'll say this again, I do hope you and your friend can sit down and talk things out, allowing your friendship to get back onto solid ground again. I hope for the best for you.

.....You know Tris, you pegged this right on the nose, no where in the post does it sound like he tried to rebuff the advance. He wasn't even out to him, if TesIII had said something about his feelings at the cuddle stage of the 1st encounter, we may not be responding to this post.

Well damn! It's bad enough that I have to watch Graeme or he'll steal my thoughts and post them before I can, but now I've got to keep an eye on Tristan as well!

Seriously, dude, I wouldn't disagree with a thing he said to you, and 99% of it is what I intend to say as well (worded a bit differently obviously).

Since I have nothing else to offer in the way of advice that hasn't already been said, I'll instead just quote a Garth Brooks song (Ha! Betcha didn't think I was gonna do that ):

The Dance:



(it'll have more of an impact if you actually listen to it )

-Kevin

If you want to read about big time manipulation, check out DomLuka's "Desert Dropping." Excellent story

It's definitely your decision how sexual you want your life to be. If you want to abstain, that's cool. But don't let this experience color that decision too strongly. That your friend tried to get you to come out of your shell can't be said to be a bad thing... I mean, your friend can't be expected to have known that you were determined to live life as a monk, can you? The boundaries of personal bubbles are often only detectable by those inside them. Friendships are usually too precious to lose over petty relationshippy things.

Right. Right. Right.
Plus, I'm just speculating about him having done it just to get me out of my shell. I won't ask because I don't want to know. For all I know he was actually dumb enough to fall for me and think that a relationship between us would work.
Everything is back to normal. It is easier to get along with him than it was while he was making his futile effort to make me into an out and proud relationship person. And that's good because damn if I can get anyone else to pick me up at the airport.

You make a good point about friendships. However, there are some behaviors that are unacceptable. You have to treat your friends right. Making a friend feel like a sex object is not a good way to treat a friend.

Then again, friends can be good bed partners when you're not ready for a relationship for whatever reason. Also, sometimes friends make good boyfriends. It all depends on the person really.

That's true, but making your friends feel desirable, confident, special, and cared about are excellent ways to treat them. Obviously I wasn't there, but it sounds to me more like Tess's friend was doing that. It's all about perception and intention really.

We do have the tendency to misunderstand other people's intentions. I have been known to do just that. Eventually, we figure it out and forgive.

Tess, it might be a good idea to talk to him and find these answers. Otherwise, you may lose a good friend. That's never a good thing.

My first reaction to this is an overwhelming, all-encompassing, insanely urgent need to hug you until your eyes pop out. I really think that while you are totally justified in the way you feel, you're not seeing all sides of what's going on.

You have a complicated, highly developed stance on the subject, don't you? Your ideas, your feelings, your thoughts, and your reactions were all derived from this really complicated mix that is your personality, right?

One thing I really want to say is that, while I will agree that what he did wasn't exactly right, it wasn't wrong either. He probably had a lot of reasons for what he did, and they're probably just as complex and justifiable as yours. I don't want to pass any judgment, but I don't want you to, either. I'm just trying to get you to consider the idea that maybe he had his own reasons, and maybe you would've done the same thing he did if you were him.




Aside from that, I think the most important thing is that you're happy. Given the fact that I know that I can't be as happy as I can possibly be without some sort of romantic involvement, I have a hard time imagining that you can truly be completely apathetic toward romantic involvement. That might just be the way I am getting in the way of me understanding you, though, so my best advice is just to make sure that no matter what you do or how you handle things, you keep your own happiness as first priority.

Oh, and all maturity and intelligent advice aside, haha.... um, no sexual life? Oh sweet baby zombie jesus on a pogo stick with cheese and crackers, how the hell can you go through life without sex? ~twitches~ It's WONDERFUL. (by the way, I can count every boy on one hand, damn it, so I'm not promiscuous.) I don't think that you should necessarily go nympho, but sex is like refined sugar; lots of it is bad, yeah, but a little is soooooooooooooooooooooooo yummy.

So... I wish you the best, and again, do what makes you happy (what really makes you happy, not what makes you tolerable).

Jamie, when are you going to get yourself appointed to the supreme court? We need you!!

Jamie is a genius. I happen to enjoy his posts immensely. I have never known an 18 year old with so much insight. I'm amazed, even to the point of being perplexed.

I'm glad things are starting to even out for you and your friend. Though like the others have said, you do need to find out his reasons why he did what he did otherwise it could come back to bite both of you on the ass.

I agree, but gotta say, cute ass though

Actually I disagree!

Tes has already pointed out a very good reason why he shouldn't ask his friend that particular question: he doesn't want to know the answer!

Sometimes for some things it is better not to know one way or the other. If Tess has wisely evaluated the situation and realized that in the long-run knowing definitively one way or the other won't help, but will instead only hurt, then why should he find out?

Perhaps, for the two of you the uncertainty would drive you crazy, but for some people the opposite is true. I'm a firm believer in the aphorism:



There are quite a few questions which I must know the answer to, and quite a few which I really mustn't. In my opinion, one of the greatest wisdoms in life is being able to distinguish between the two.

Take care all and have an awesome day
Kevin

I was agreeing to

It is difficult to add to all the great insights comments that your post generated. I will say this , Your friend first ouverture was a cuddle on the sofa , not a kiss or other classic sexual cues ; but offered something perhaps deeper , at the edge of the platonic . Possibly he expressed a deep seated need to protect you and to make you feel good against the world . How can anyone resist this invitation which belies such a degree of intimacy.
Sometimes one has to sort mutual feelings against reality .So in time you both discovered that your intimacy is about friendship the history of which should strengthen your bond rather than dissolve it. You ask do I have the right to feel irritated .
Emotions do not ask themselves by what right they gush to life. Beware , the plurality of emotions make for a wide range of reactions which should be under the control of your choosing . Righteousness , rightly leads to rigidity of thoughts (ok I had fun writing that last bit)
The problem with life is that necessary experience to handle life challenges need life experience , so It is understandable that your wishes to lay your tiles on the game of life be of your own making . However life unfurl the way it generally does regardless of dreams and wishes . So maybe it is a good idea to lay your tiles before life shake them loose of your hands , even if it does mean that in the haste they do not match dreams exactly . Better a few mishaps than no tiles on the game board of reality. When dusk will set as it does , the only thing that count is who you loved , and who does or ever did love you and why .
Ixyam

A wonderful post! Very insightful! But...

I mustn't be particularly righteous then considering that I pride myself on my fluidity of thought.

Lol, after reading many of your comments , I am going to throw a wild guess and say that you do not qualify for the title of righteousness (Is that a word ? I am too lazy to look it up) .If there is a valid juncture between righteousness and fluidity of thought , then your pride will not be misplaced. If not then you will have to find another marker to gage your fluidity of thought ... perhaps reading a few of your own comments ;-)
Don't ask me to prove this link... not tonight , I've got a headache.

*gasp!*

What a delightfully blunt thing to say!

I do try to lead a very moral life, and while I try very much to avoid being self-righteous I rather hope that I conduct myself in an overall virtuous way. I don't view being fluid, relative, and open-minded as being mutually exclusive to being 'righteous' or 'virtuous' or 'moral', indeed by my moral compass they're rather highly related

ok ... I simply meant that your fluidity of mind wasn't in question after reading your comments as I was impressed by your humanity and didn't want to embarrass you by writing just that . . As for being righteous or virtuous or moral I have no reason whatever to doubt you .
I would say that we are affected by the nature of our tenets which are mostly tainted by millennium of religious belief and fluidity of thoughts is heavily lensed by theses heavy objects the result of which is well.. us . I think that theses tenets are only pale copies of the original which makes us human .
And so your moral compass can rest easy in your heart .
My original point was rather pragmatic that being in the right doesn't constitute in itself a mandate to unleash one's wrath into the world.
Let's imagine this situation , you are driving along and arrive to a narrow bridge , the way is clear so you engage into the bridge which is rather long when this huge truck arrive at full speed on the other side and keeps on going .
You have three options
You panic and do nothing _you are dead
You are in your right and keep going _you are dead right
You slam on your breaks , slap reverse and live ... by the way you were right
So there your fluidity of thoughts and fast reflexes saved the day
Ixyam

Aww

Thanks! I was just being silly anyway, lol

Very insightful and well put, as always

The most important thing here is to make sure you speculate about his motivations so as to be certain never to question your own certainties about how you feel. After all, secure as you are in your own self-understanding, it is ludicrous to imagine that you could be wrong - about him or you! Do not allow his unwarranted intrusion into the life of a friend undermine your determination that you know all that life has to offer. If you do that you'll end up taking chances!

OK, I'm not usually harsh, and please believe me I mean this half humorously and all kindly, but whatever mistake this boy made, does it have to be down to be manipulative or dumb?

Sorry Teslll, I didn't consider a few obvious cues , and didn't consider the question from your point of view.
So let me say this :
You ask do I have a right to feel angry
May be you feel angry and are wondering why , and you ask yourself why do I feel this way.
This kind of introspection is legitimate, good and healthy , emotions have a life of their own and tend to surge at odd moments and places . We can't possibly know why you would feel this way , because you and your friend have a common history . Your feelings may be related to other events which is impossible or difficult to imagine from what you disclosed in this post. Sometimes people exhibit personality traits and mimic or conform to parents or other significant person and may be unaware of this kind of water-stamp which may be irritating to others at times , for which they are more apparent in time of stress and used in some kind of shield or blunt instrument.
This is a thing that one must accept very much like flaws in a pane of glass , there are some distortion but the light still go through . I mean by this to suggest that it is difficult to remove theses flaws without damaging the person.
The other obvious assumption that I would make is if this boy is your friend , It is because you deemed him worthy of being your friend .
Ixyam.