I have refrained from commenting on this because I was so horrified and fired up over it.

these terrorists went into a school full of kids, purposely, and killed them. Boys 15-19 and a 26 yr old. Kids that were doing nothing but studying.

The world is quiet. The UN's comdemnation was scuttled by the the Arab/Terrorist/Muslim state of Libya.

http://www.townhall.com/columnists/Jonatha...school_massacre

Israel keeps trying for peace, while the Arabs keep trying to wipe them out.

I have a solution. Israel needs to go to true, unrestricted warfare on Gaza. There can be no peace without victory. Pummel the Palestinians until they call for peace. It worked on the Germans and Japanese in World War II. It will work here too. Yes, lot of innocent people will die... but they'll be warned ahead of time.

Unlike some kids sitting in a school that some random guy goes into and starts killing.

I agree. The Isrealis have made consession after consession, and everytime they respond to an attack, the UN and other nations condemn them, as if they have no right to protect their own people. It's disgusting. It's sad, but the time for Isreal to bomb the living crap out of Gaza came a long time ago.

.............What is disgusting is the UN response, what will happen eventually? Isreal will have to do just what NickolasJames said.

That's because the UN hates Israel and the United States. But if you look at the UN, it's easy to see that they haven't got a leg to stand on. I mean, how in the hell is China a member of the Human Rights Council??

Various Arab countries and the Palestinians have started numerous conflicts with the Israelis. When Israel rolls up her sleeves, treats it like a war and wipes the floor with their sorry ass, the ragheads go to the UN and cry about Israelis killing babies. The only time the UN does anything in this conflict it is either to sanction Israel or to call a cease fire while one group of Arabs or another ishaving their behind handed to them.

The UN has become a club for 3rd worlders yelling I hate America/Israel. If the UN is not reformed in some way, there is no reason for our country to be in it or to finance it.

Evict those chicken shittes from some of the best real estate in New York. We'll find something useful to do with the space.

This is outrageous. You'd think in a city full of Jews like Miami this would have been major news. And yet neither the Miami-Herald or the local news channels had any mention of it.

As a Jew I'm outraged by this.

It's time we stop playing games with these terrorists and show them what the IDF is capable of when it goes all out!

And yet, you all know if Israel played serious hardball with the Palestinians all the other Arab states surrounding her would attack at once.

That's not good cause that would mean the US would have to step up and defend Israel or risk having Israel resort to nuclear weapons.

And right now the US military can barely hold its own in Iraq. And after all these years it still hasn't found bin Laden.

That would mean a big-time draft and budget deficits so huge no country would be willing to support our self-imposed bankruptcy.

So, if it comes down to a nuclear war how would you all feel about it?

Israel could stand on her own if all the Arab states attacked at once. The only one that might be trouble would be Egypt but unlike Iraq, they have the good sense to shoot leaders who take them into disasterous wars.

Since the beginning Israel has known that her international support will wax and wane with political tides. Israel has invested enough in herself to have an industrial infrastructure that can build everything they need. In fact Israel builds her own main battle tank, jet fighter, smart weapons and both heavy and small arms.

Although Israel has a nuclear arsenal, it's highly doubtful that she would ever use them. Her conventional forces are literally some of the best in the world, well lead and could easily dominate any combination of her obnoxious neighbors. Because Israel is so small and her population is so dense, her nuclear policy is no first use which means that she would only use nukes in retaliation to a first strike.

I don't want anyone to take what I'm about to say as a personal attack, but I find it disturbing that so many people in the GLBT community don't side with Israel on this. I mean, if they lived in Gaza, they'd be arrested for being who they are. It's important to stand with Israel right now, because by doing so, we're taking a stand against an ideology that says that homosexuals worldwide are to be executed. Hell, they do execute gays in Iran.
How does it feel for the gay left in this nation when we get another report out of Iran that they've executed a homosexual? Does it affect them at all? Does it make them mad? Sad? Do they want to stand up and fight? Are they worried that this violence could spread around the world? How about the fact that the UN doesn't sanction Iran for the genocide that they're engaged in? What about the silence from the government here in the US? Both republicans and democrats. How can ANY politican call themselves a gay rights advocate and NOT go to the floor of the house or the senate to condemn the actions of the Islamist regimes that want us all dead?
The sad thing is, this thread is where it belongs, in the Gay Right forum. Why's that? Because the gay left sides with Israel's enemies more often than not. My only question is, why the hell is that?

Think about the Universe in which Earth is situated. It's a violent place. The forces that shape it are brutal beyond anything we here on Earth are capable of. So, in my mind at least, since we are creatures of this Universe in which we live, violence ultimately trumps mere words.

It's great to try and resolve our conflicts here on Earth via diplomacy. That should always be the first avenue we pursue when trying to work things out.

But we also need to recognize and accept there comes a time when talk serves no useful purpose and only the use of force will be understood and respected.

I don't want to paint the attitudes of the left with too broad a brush. And yet at the same time it seems enough leftists think that talking your way through every situation is the only acceptable option. Once you start responding with violence then even the most ardent supporters are going to side with the bad guys and, in this case, blame Israel for going too far, and will try to see things from the side of those would ultimately like to see Israel wiped out.

The right seems to accept that talk is good, up to a certain point. And then you've got to go all out with everything you've got to drive home your point. To live with an attitude like this requires you be certain of your principles and that those principles are sound. Once you accept that mindset then the use of force, and not swaying from the goals you want to achieve, are the only way to go.

I happen to agree. This would be a great topic for the soapbox.

I have to also say that Israel needs to protect itself from the sharks all around. The Israelis should especially defend Jerusalem, because it is one of their most sacred cities. The fact of the matter is that Israel has been too nice to the Palestinians, yet they blow up schools and buses whenever they feel like it. Israel needs to take action, and the US should support such actions without hesitation.

Well, its easy to talk about the best solutions for Israel but you must take care of four aspects of the problem.
(BTW, I'm Jew, have a lot of relatives in Israel, was as a young guy member of a Youth group of Hashomer in Switzerland. see Hashomer in Wiki !) So I know what I'm talking about .

1. Public opinion and the majority of the Parliament are not ready for an Ultimate Solution (total war against Palestinians),

2. The Israel economy and especially the military expenses need the support from Jews abroad and first of all from USA.

3. The army today is not the same as in 1967. The Six-Day War was won thanks to the ability and the skill of the general in command and was supported by everybody in Israel. The commanders of today are not of the same class and the morale of the troops is lower as it was in 1967.

4. The strategical politic of Israel depends from the international politic of USA. Israel can make from itself short actions, like Entebbe or the bombing of an atomic center. But they need the "green light" from USA for a bigger action.
Remember :In May 1974, Palestinians attacked a School in Ma'alot, holding 100 children hostage. 26 children were killed. What was the result : in November 1974 the PLO was granted observer status at the UN and Yasser Arafat addressed the General Assembly !

The only real ally of Israel are the USA.
Its up to you to bring your leaders to give the necessary green light !

The equivalent of what is happening daily with the rockets from Gaza is if Mexico was sending Rockets from Tijuana into the USA every day. Does anyone think that the USA would not respond by leveling Mexico?

why should Israel be any different?

(My dog in this race is that my favorite cousin is Jewish, thankfully here in the USA)

Mexico, as a nation, would no longer exist. I think the US would have some added territory, an addition 3 times larger than Texas. Israel has a right to defend itself. They should be able to do so without fear of retribution by other nations on the Palestinians' behalf. According to Jewish teaching, the rule is an eye for an eye. It's too bad Israel does not stand by that teaching in foreign policy.

The unfortunate reality is that neither country can afford a war. They are both operating on borrowed money. At the rate the dollar is sinking and the euro rising what incentive is there for any sovereign nation to lend us money to fight a war they're not in favor of?

Every time that the Arabs and Israelis get into it, Israel wins and the UN calls for a cease fire before victory is acheived.

Tim, I think it's a mistake to expect all of Israel to abide by Jewish teaching. The country is largely secular.

From personal experience of having attended school there I can tell you the busiest days at the parks and beaches are Rosh Hashanah and Yom Kippur, the two holiest holidays in Judaism.

That is why the country, as "old bob" suggested, might not be in favor of an ultimate war against the Arabs. They don't all necessarily believe in the "eye for an eye" teachings of the Hebrew Bible.

Can someone explain to me why they gave the west bank back to the Palastinians? I never understood that.

I don't think Israel ever gave the West Bank back to the Palestinians. Great Britain surrendered its "mandate" of the area in 1948. Jordan relinquished its claim to the area in 1988. Since then there have been no internationally recognized claimants to the area. Technically it's simply a territory that Israel continues to occupy.

I'll have to research the topic a little more, but I could have sworn I remembered hearing a couple of years ago that ISrael forced the Jewish settlers out of the West Bank and gave the land to the Palestinians. Maybe I'm wrong about that.

In 2005 Israel did remove all Jewish settlers from the area and withdrew its troops. It never gave up its claim to the West Bank. The next year in response to rocket attacks and the abduction of an Israeli soldier, the IDF once again invaded the area and remains there to this day.

So they removed all of the settlers in a gesture of peace toward the Palestinians, but they were repaid with attacks and more bloodshed. That just goes to show that the Palestinians will stop at nothing to drive every last Israeli into the ocean.

I think we both agree on that point. It makes me so angry sometimes I want to scream!

I don't think they ever removed all, or even most, of the settlers in the West Bank, and new settlements continue being built all the time.

Sorry, but you are wrong .
Saying that is the same as preaching the homophobic rules of Levitic or the Sharia.
No Rabbi of today would preach "an eye for an eye". *
(*well, I must be frank. Some of them do it. But every nation has its "terrorists")
In my old days, the expression "eye for eye..... was used against us by a lot of French Anti-semites" and above all, The General de Gaulle used it to change the French policy from supporting Israel to supporting the Arabs. We have not so many friends in the world. In the past and perhaps now, remembering this old rule seems not - for me - to be a good idea. But everybody has the right to have his own opinion !

I'd like to think that in this day and age, the expression "an eye for an eye" isn't the motto for any nation, but I know that it's not true. Hopefully, though, in Israel's case, they use a motto closer to, "Whatever's in the best interest of the people."

I should not have mentioned eye for an eye. However, Israel still needs to be able to defend itself and seek retribution for terrorism. Israel has tried so many times to end the fighting and make peace, but then, someone blows up a bus in Tel Aviv. What is Israel supposed to do about it if the country has its hands tied by nations in Europe and North America?

It's ok Tim. In this case an eye for an eye might be fine. Hell, two eyes for an eye might be even better. But things are a lot different in Israel today than they were several decades ago. It seems like the people are tired of wars and just want peace. But the only thing the Palestinians will respect is being reduced to nothing. And then Israel will have to deal with being accused of genocide. What a ironic twist of fate that would be.

There would be peace if they stopped sending young men and women to blow themselves up in Tel Aviv!

The Palestinian government can't even govern themselves right now. So how do you expect them to put a stop to suicide bombers?