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Cynical Romantic
QUOTE (Duncan Ryder @ July 21 2008, 11:24 PM) *
Chapter 4 is on its way -- literally. Gabriel's just finished proofing it...


Yay, it's up!
sat8997
Why do you intentionally post these in the middle of the night so it's the first thing I see in the morning??? Now I'm going to be late for work and I'm blaming you. mad.gif

Great chapter, by the way...
Cynical Romantic
Wow.

Wow, wow, wow.

Sorry for sounding like a blabbering idiot. But really, I don't understand how you do it. Each chapter is more powerful than the last, and this one literally had me bowled over.

You write with such perceptiveness about human emotion that it's difficult to read, sometimes, because it's like a window right into the souls of your characters. You can feel Luc's pain, Matt's pain, Scott's pain, and especially Josh's pain in this chapter in such a raw fashion. The last scene with Scott and Josh was just brilliantly done.

*SPOILERS BELOW*



So it's starting to seem like Matt still has feelings for Josh, despite his lies to Bran on the subject. The relationship between the brothers is really well written. It's like Bran, despite being younger, is really the older, wiser and stronger one, and Matt seems to lean on him a lot. He obviously still has a lot to work through, and he seems to believe that he shouldn't feel anything for Josh; after all, he knows it was a long time ago and was just a "small thing", but that doesn't mean you can change what's in your heart. And Josh is very clearly in Matt's, whether he admits it or not.

And from the final scene, it's hard to say, but it seems like Scott still has feelings for Luc, and his guilt over hurting Luc earlier by phone is so strong that he doesn't realize just how much he is hurting Josh by what he does. Or maybe he does know, and subconsciously it's his way of repenting for what he did to Luc, so to speak - evening the score. Josh is still so fragile, probably even more deeply wounded than Luc will ever be or than Scott will ever understand, and Scott is leaning on Josh so he can work through his guilt about Luc. It's a tightrope walk, really, and I haven't even mentioned the cliffhanger at the end. (Evil, evil, evil!)

QUOTE
Everything? Josh felt he wanted to weep. He couldn’t do this. He couldn’t bear it. Yet Scott needed him. Scott needed him to understand.


This seems to be a part of Josh's personality that has developed out of the open wounds from Graham. He allows himself to get hurt because he feels that it's what the person he's with needs. And of course, Scott isn't Graham, and he would never hurt Josh just for its own twisted sake the way Graham would... but he's hurting him anyway. Twisting in the knife out of his own sense of guilt. And Josh allows it - asks for it, even - because that's what he thinks he should do. The whole thing is heartbreaking, and it makes me wonder whether they will be able to work through it.

QUOTE
“I am not afraid,” he said, his voice clear and calm and certain. This was not a time for whispers. “I love you and I am not afraid.”


Josh is amazingly perceptive, knowing just what Scott needs at that exact moment. But when you write "and then they were free", I can't help but wonder whether that's true. For Scott, yes. For Scott, it is a release from at least some of his demons. But for Josh? What about Josh?

I guess I'll have to (impatiently) wait for Chapter 5 to find out...



One other observation - and this really doesn't have to do with the chapter but it occurred to me after reading some of your other posts on this forum, and re-reading sections of Everybody's Wounded. You're "Ben and Ry", aren't you? (More specifically, is it "Ry" named for for "Duncan Ryder")? I mean, not literally, of course, but as a means of giving voice to your own feelings on the subject, right? Can I hope that they will put in an appearance in HTLGI to help the protagonists sort out this mess?
MikeL
I really like this story, Duncan. I can't express myself the way the Cynical Romantic does; she has said it all. It surprises me that a story with so much sadness in can be so beautiful. Please keep us spellbound. Thanks.
Tiger
That was a great chapter, though it literally give me chills. Luc is still lost in the darkness, clinging to hope. Scott feels so much guilt for what he feels responsible for. Then, of course, there's Josh. The revelation is probably going to make it more difficult for him to trust Scott. This could create a rift that may not easily be repaired.
MikeL
I'm reluctant to make a prediction, but I can see the current, apparent living arrangements being turned upside down by the end of this story. There is too much uncertainty in the existing relationships, too many wounds unhealed for any easy resolution to take hold. The big question is whether any arrangement can resolve all the hurt.
steph291
QUOTE (MikeL @ July 22 2008, 09:18 AM) *
I'm reluctant to make a prediction, but I can see the current, apparent living arrangements being turned upside down by the end of this story. There is too much uncertainty in the existing relationships, too many wounds unhealed for any easy resolution to take hold. The big question is whether any arrangement can resolve all the hurt.

blink.gif You mean... *gasp* Luc and Matt aren't guaranteed to end up together? ohmy.gif
MikeL
QUOTE (steph291 @ July 22 2008, 11:22 AM) *
blink.gif You mean... *gasp* Luc and Matt aren't guaranteed to end up together? ohmy.gif

Again, I am reluctant to make a prediction, but if I were to make one, this is one I might make.
Cynical Romantic
QUOTE (steph291 @ July 22 2008, 12:22 PM) *
blink.gif You mean... *gasp* Luc and Matt aren't guaranteed to end up together? ohmy.gif


Actually I'd be kinda surprised if that did happen. I know that's the obvious route the story seems to be taking right now. But if I had to guess at this point (and this is a total guess), I'd say that Matt will probably be a platonic friend to Luc, helping him heal and freeing him from his demons. I'd also guess that Josh and Scott probably won't wind up together in the end - theirs seems to be a relationship built on wounds that maybe they need one another to get over. Maybe their role in each other's lives has a limited, specific purpose. Josh is showing Scott that he doesn't always have to be the strong one in a relationship, and he can allow someone else to take care of him. He's also helping him come to terms with the guilt he feels over Luc. Scott, in turn, is showing Josh that love and tenderness and caring are possible in a relationship, and that Josh is deserving of all of those things. But once they are able to get past that, will they still be right for each other?

Actually, I'm wondering if maybe Scott and Luc will get a second chance? They both seem to still have feelings for one another - Luc outwardly, Scott maybe not so much - and while they're both dealing with a lot of baggage, maybe once they get through it, they will be free to be with one another?

All of the above is just guessing. I could be totally wrong. I probably am. Or maybe I just have a soft spot for Luc. *Grin*.
MikeL
QUOTE (Cynical Romantic @ July 22 2008, 11:55 AM) *
Actually, I'm wondering if maybe Scott and Luc will get a second chance? They both seem to still have feelings for one another - Luc outwardly, Scott maybe not so much - and while they're both dealing with a lot of baggage, maybe once they get through it, they will be free to be with one another?

That's what I am thinking too, CR. The story is settling in on these four main characters, all of them wounded at least once in an earlier relationship. Scott is becoming the main culprit. Gentle, caring, well-intentioned Scott is doing more harm than good. He wounded Luc emotionally which prompted Luc to wound himself physically. He left Luc, thinking that Josh was the more needful. Now he has wounded the unafraid Josh by uttering a single word. All that he has done was intended to help others heal, but has only led to more hurt. Now his pairing Matt with Luc, despite his intentions for them to support each other, may lead to fresh wounds for one or both of them.

This is a sad, beautiful story.
Cynical Romantic
What's that quote about the road to hell being paved with good intentions?
steph291
Okay, if Luc and Scott get another chance, then Matt and Josh need one, too! Equal opportunity, you know? happy.gif

Actually, I do not think that Luc and Scott will get back together (or get together for the first time?). Scott had a facination with Luc, and that's now rolled into guilt for pushing Luc to reveal feelings that he wasn't ready to face. I don't think he actually wants to be with Luc. I think Josh is his match and I'm sticking to it! mad.gif tongue.gif
CarlHoliday
QUOTE (Cynical Romantic @ July 22 2008, 09:55 AM) *
Actually, I'm wondering if maybe Scott and Luc will get a second chance? They both seem to still have feelings for one another - Luc outwardly, Scott maybe not so much - and while they're both dealing with a lot of baggage, maybe once they get through it, they will be free to be with one another?

All of the above is just guessing. I could be totally wrong. I probably am. Or maybe I just have a soft spot for Luc. *Grin*.


Luc is definitely at the top of my list to get Scott's heart. He seems like such a sweet guy and I can't see him getting snuffed because of that. All that has to happen is for Scott to get his act together and realilze that it's Luc he needs to be loving not some "older" guy like Josh.

Sometimes I get the feeling that Scott's with Josh because of some sympathy thing and if Luc hadn't been so screwed up in EW they'd be together now. Of course, we wouldn't be talking about them either because there wouldn't be this story going on.

Well, at least all the major characters (Josh, Matt, Scott, and Luc) are going to be in the same building and will bump into each other on a regular basis. This should be fun, especially when Stevie and that Keirnan guy show up with the other partyers.

Great chapter Duncan!

Cynical Romantic
QUOTE (steph291 @ July 22 2008, 07:19 PM) *
Okay, if Luc and Scott get another chance, then Matt and Josh need one, too! Equal opportunity, you know? happy.gif

Actually, I do not think that Luc and Scott will get back together (or get together for the first time?). Scott had a facination with Luc, and that's now rolled into guilt for pushing Luc to reveal feelings that he wasn't ready to face. I don't think he actually wants to be with Luc. I think Josh is his match and I'm sticking to it! mad.gif tongue.gif



QUOTE (CarlHoliday @ July 22 2008, 07:27 PM) *
Luc is definitely at the top of my list to get Scott's heart. He seems like such a sweet guy and I can't see him getting snuffed because of that. All that has to happen is for Scott to get his act together and realilze that it's Luc he needs to be loving not some "older" guy like Josh.


Hehe, we have ourselves a war. Maybe we should start clubs, like the Domaholics' LRites and whatnot. SLites? SJites? LMites? laugh.gif
Conner
Duncan,

Enough already! 2handed.gif tongue.gif

My tear bucket is full and we're only at chapter 4. sad.gif

How about a beach party next chapter? thumbsupsmileyanim.gif guitar.gif

Your characters are so beautiful. They really are. wub.gif

There are some great observations from your other readers. I really enjoyed them.

Congrats on being shared hosted (yes, I'm a wee bit slow off the mark). That's fantastic! worshippy.gif worshippy.gif

Conner
jessiflash
Those poor boys...

Another beautiful chapter Duncan.
Duncan Ryder
QUOTE (Cynical Romantic @ July 22 2008, 09:31 AM) *
Wow.

Wow, wow, wow.

Sorry for sounding like a blabbering idiot. But really, I don't understand how you do it. Each chapter is more powerful than the last, and this one literally had me bowled over.

You write with such perceptiveness about human emotion that it's difficult to read, sometimes, because it's like a window right into the souls of your characters. You can feel Luc's pain, Matt's pain, Scott's pain, and especially Josh's pain in this chapter in such a raw fashion. The last scene with Scott and Josh was just brilliantly done.

*SPOILERS BELOW*



So it's starting to seem like Matt still has feelings for Josh, despite his lies to Bran on the subject. The relationship between the brothers is really well written. It's like Bran, despite being younger, is really the older, wiser and stronger one, and Matt seems to lean on him a lot. He obviously still has a lot to work through, and he seems to believe that he shouldn't feel anything for Josh; after all, he knows it was a long time ago and was just a "small thing", but that doesn't mean you can change what's in your heart. And Josh is very clearly in Matt's, whether he admits it or not.

And from the final scene, it's hard to say, but it seems like Scott still has feelings for Luc, and his guilt over hurting Luc earlier by phone is so strong that he doesn't realize just how much he is hurting Josh by what he does. Or maybe he does know, and subconsciously it's his way of repenting for what he did to Luc, so to speak - evening the score. Josh is still so fragile, probably even more deeply wounded than Luc will ever be or than Scott will ever understand, and Scott is leaning on Josh so he can work through his guilt about Luc. It's a tightrope walk, really, and I haven't even mentioned the cliffhanger at the end. (Evil, evil, evil!)



This seems to be a part of Josh's personality that has developed out of the open wounds from Graham. He allows himself to get hurt because he feels that it's what the person he's with needs. And of course, Scott isn't Graham, and he would never hurt Josh just for its own twisted sake the way Graham would... but he's hurting him anyway. Twisting in the knife out of his own sense of guilt. And Josh allows it - asks for it, even - because that's what he thinks he should do. The whole thing is heartbreaking, and it makes me wonder whether they will be able to work through it.



Josh is amazingly perceptive, knowing just what Scott needs at that exact moment. But when you write "and then they were free", I can't help but wonder whether that's true. For Scott, yes. For Scott, it is a release from at least some of his demons. But for Josh? What about Josh?

I guess I'll have to (impatiently) wait for Chapter 5 to find out...



One other observation - and this really doesn't have to do with the chapter but it occurred to me after reading some of your other posts on this forum, and re-reading sections of Everybody's Wounded. You're "Ben and Ry", aren't you? (More specifically, is it "Ry" named for for "Duncan Ryder")? I mean, not literally, of course, but as a means of giving voice to your own feelings on the subject, right? Can I hope that they will put in an appearance in HTLGI to help the protagonists sort out this mess?


Interesting, intelligent analysis. You should know how enormously fulfilling it is for a writer to see how story reaches out, and the characters are working as "real" people for readers. Thank you.

As for who I am... well... I guess I've said this enough times to individuals that I can say it in the forum. I think most of the important characters writers create reflect something of themselves ... certainly there is something of me in virtually every character in EW....

(And how do you do that black out thing, by the way.... It took me a while to figure out how to read it!!!)
Duncan Ryder
QUOTE (Cynical Romantic @ July 22 2008, 09:31 PM) *
Hehe, we have ourselves a war. Maybe we should start clubs, like the Domaholics' LRites and whatnot. SLites? SJites? LMites? laugh.gif


Funny. When I first wrote EW it was on Nifty, and I got tons of email which I basically divided into two camps, which I thought to myself of as "Team Josh" and "Team Luc".
Duncan Ryder
QUOTE (CarlHoliday @ July 22 2008, 07:27 PM) *
Luc is definitely at the top of my list to get Scott's heart. He seems like such a sweet guy and I can't see him getting snuffed because of that. All that has to happen is for Scott to get his act together and realilze that it's Luc he needs to be loving not some "older" guy like Josh.

Sometimes I get the feeling that Scott's with Josh because of some sympathy thing and if Luc hadn't been so screwed up in EW they'd be together now. Of course, we wouldn't be talking about them either because there wouldn't be this story going on.

Well, at least all the major characters (Josh, Matt, Scott, and Luc) are going to be in the same building and will bump into each other on a regular basis. This should be fun, especially when Stevie and that Keirnan guy show up with the other partyers.

Great chapter Duncan!



Thank you.

No comments on predictions of course.

But Carl is clearly on Team Luc!
Duncan Ryder
QUOTE (Conner @ July 23 2008, 01:47 AM) *
Duncan,


Your characters are so beautiful. They really are. wub.gif

Congrats on being shared hosted (yes, I'm a wee bit slow off the mark). That's fantastic! worshippy.gif worshippy.gif

Conner


Thanks Conner.
Duncan Ryder
QUOTE (MikeL @ July 22 2008, 01:53 PM) *
That's what I am thinking too, CR. The story is settling in on these four main characters, all of them wounded at least once in an earlier relationship. Scott is becoming the main culprit. Gentle, caring, well-intentioned Scott is doing more harm than good. He wounded Luc emotionally which prompted Luc to wound himself physically. He left Luc, thinking that Josh was the more needful. Now he has wounded the unafraid Josh by uttering a single word. All that he has done was intended to help others heal, but has only led to more hurt. Now his pairing Matt with Luc, despite his intentions for them to support each other, may lead to fresh wounds for one or both of them.

This is a sad, beautiful story.



Thank you.

Gee.... you're pretty sure of whose name Scott cries out....

I have to say, I thought I'd get a much harder ride on the "cliff hanger"... I'll have to work on those I guess....
Duncan Ryder
Thank you all for taking the time to comment. It is very gratifying for me to know that the story touches...that's really what I try to do. Sad? Yes, it's a sad story. But also, I hope, a loving, hopeful one. We are all wounded, after all, and we all have to keep going on, and figure this love stuff out anyway, you know?
MikeL
QUOTE (Duncan Ryder @ July 23 2008, 08:47 AM) *
(And how do you do that black out thing, by the way.... It took me a while to figure out how to read it!!!)

Just highlight the text you want to hide by holding the right mouse button and dragging the cursor across the text. Then use the drop down box "Insert Special Item", and select "Spoiler".

QUOTE (Duncan Ryder @ July 23 2008, 08:56 AM) *
Thank you.

Gee.... you're pretty sure of whose name Scott cries out....

I have to say, I thought I'd get a much harder ride on the "cliff hanger"... I'll have to work on those I guess....

I don't think we would see a cliffhanger if he had said "Josh". I guess he could have said "David", but I believe he is long since over David. The smart money would be on "Luc". I really think Scott has spoken from his heart. His well-intentioned plans to help Josh heal are all in his head.
Cynical Romantic
QUOTE (Duncan Ryder @ July 23 2008, 09:47 AM) *
Interesting, intelligent analysis. You should know how enormously fulfilling it is for a writer to see how story reaches out, and the characters are working as "real" people for readers. Thank you.

As for who I am... well... I guess I've said this enough times to individuals that I can say it in the forum. I think most of the important characters writers create reflect something of themselves ... certainly there is something of me in virtually every character in EW.... Luc is probably the character closest to me...

(And how do you do that black out thing, by the way.... It took me a while to figure out how to read it!!!)


Sorry, maybe I should have clarified. I didn't mean that Ben or Ry is you, specifically, in terms of exact circumstances or true-life stories or anything. I just meant that I kinda see how you have previously used them as a vehicle to interject some of your own views into the story. This fits with what you've said elsewhere in the forum about providing positive role models and it just occurred to me, maybe a bit belatedly, that you use Ben and Ry's characters as a sort of voice of reason, through which you get to feed your own opinions. I don't know whether this was intentional or not, but I think it's very, very clever.

Oh, and the blackout thing just uses the "spoiler" tag, which you can wrap around any text. Like this. See, it's fun! Okay, I'll stop now.

Anyway, keep it up. You should realize by now that I am completely addicted to this story and have become very emotionally invested in the characters, which is a true sign of excellent writing. Thank you!
wildone
Duncan, great chapter worshippy.gif .

I see in your comments that you mention that 'everyones wounded' and I can't help but feel that with the progression of How The Light Gets In that indeed everyone is wounded.

At first glance it would seem that Josh is healing with his relationship with Scott. How much did that relationship suffer with the utterance of a name in that evil cliffhanger? I am assuming that Josh is the type of person that gives 110% in a relationship, and expects the same from his partner. Could that be the reason he stayed with Graham for so long? Could he have misread Scott as being the type of person who could love him solely the amount that he loves Scott?

Matt is definitely hurting, and I get the feeling that he is trying to recover from his demons of the past and may be fooling himself (and us) into to thinking that it is all because of Josh. The one thing that jumped out of me was the fact that Bran knows of Matt's past in the sense of the drugs and alcohol and the man whoring he did in Banff and Whistler, but he still couldn't find the strength or courage to tell him what is really weighing on his mind?

QUOTE
But how was he supposed to get through the rest of it? How, after so much truth, was he supposed to lie to his brother again? He didn’t want to, but he would if he had to.


What could be so bad and be of the results of Matt's less than proud past is he willing to continue to lie about to protect Bran, and most likely others? I have a strong suspicion, but don't want to play my cards now tongue.gif .

Now we find out about Bran and Laura. Wow, my heart goes out to Laura when Bran tells about the counseling sessions that they are going through. It still amazes me that people can do so much to try to control and damage people for their self fulfilling needs. Bran seems to not only feel her pain, but is also being pained by the past as well. It seems that he has made a commitment to Laura to help her heal, but at the same time what sane guy wouldn't begin to wonder 'Is it worth it?'

Now Scott it seemed was healing well, up until this point. Obviously he is beginning to realize that he is not doing so well. It seems like his heart is torn between the two people that he feels he needs to help heal all by himself. His little actions to show that he really does care seems to be back firing on him and making him less and less sure of what he is doing.

For my interpretation of this chapter, and something no one else has seemed to comment on yet, Luc. I could not help but to think of his emotional state throughout the chapter. The passage that has me worried the most was this:

QUOTE
Luc was acutely aware that it was just the two of them, alone and breathing and hurt, in their separate places a thousand miles apart.

And then, despite the pain of it, Luc felt a strange, strong calmness descend on him, like the fog settling on the shore.

“Bran’s brother sounds like a good solution,” he said, and the sudden calmness and strength of his voice surprised him. “Yes, that will do. Thank you very much. I will email you later tomorrow to make arrangements.


Luc found a strange, strong calmness descend on him???? Is this the calm before the storm? Could Luc be so alone that he has found resolve in that all his hopes and plans have been crushed once again that he feels that their is only one solution to end the pain? One decision that he has attempted to use in the past multiple times and has yet to learn that it is never the solution?

Damn Duncan, I'm hoping and praying that this is not where your going. I don't know if I can take another scene like in EW and the resulting effects on everyone.




Thank you very much for the story, you do truly touch everyone who reads your writing.

Steve cool.gif
Duncan Ryder
QUOTE (Cynical Romantic @ July 23 2008, 11:41 AM) *
Sorry, maybe I should have clarified. I didn't mean that Ben or Ry is you, specifically, in terms of exact circumstances or true-life stories or anything. I just meant that I kinda see how you have previously used them as a vehicle to interject some of your own views into the story. This fits with what you've said elsewhere in the forum about providing positive role models and it just occurred to me, maybe a bit belatedly, that you use Ben and Ry's characters as a sort of voice of reason, through which you get to feed your own opinions. I don't know whether this was intentional or not, but I think it's very, very clever.



Ah. Yes. Then it that case you are right. They are the older, happily married gay couple who have always been there, who lead by example, (and who can be depended upon to deliver the right lectures -- like not perving on straight boys and safe sex -- when necessary.
Duncan Ryder
QUOTE (wildone @ July 23 2008, 12:10 PM) *
Now we find out about Bran and Laura. Wow, my heart goes out to Laura when Bran tells about the counseling sessions that they are going through. It still amazes me that people can do so much to try to control and damage people for their self fulfilling needs. Bran seems to not only feel her pain, but is also being pained by the past as well. It seems that he has made a commitment to Laura to help her heal, but at the same time what sane guy wouldn't begin to wonder 'Is it worth it?'


Actually...the Bran and Laura story thread was there all along... Bran found out about what happened to Laura right before the championship rugby game and told Scott about it and it was Scott who suggested he get her into rape counselling because date rape is still rape.... but then Luc did what Luc did, and I think that got forgotten... but I will tell you that it's a really really important thread to pay attention to.
Puppster
I wonder if Bran isn't partially going to the consoling to also help himself with his own past.


And like the others on here, Duncan, you are the master of capturing emotions. I can feel the longing, the hurt, the pain of all your characters. Though it is nice to have some happy moments in there to make us smile after all the tears! HINT HINT ph34r.gif
Cynical Romantic
I think it's a bad sign if I'm going through withdrawal symptoms after a mere 3 weeks without an update.
Duncan Ryder
QUOTE (Cynical Romantic @ August 12 2008, 07:03 PM) *
I think it's a bad sign if I'm going through withdrawal symptoms after a mere 3 weeks without an update.


I'm hoping to have it finished this weekend. It's almost there.

Really.
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