Kit, you have joined the Evil Club. That club is for people who write amazingly sad stories that make me want to cry!

Now on to your story. I thought it was fantastic. From the beginning you set the tone perfectly and you were very consistent throughout, so that the reader knew what direction you were heading in, but we still felt compelled to read long enough to find out.

At first I thought there was something weird Harry intially, but then being nervous about meeting someone off the internet for the first time is natural. I wondered why he didn't warm up a little more to James, but then we found out the real reason for his sadness--his mother died, and he had nowhere to stay.

I thought once Harry came to live with James that things would get better, but I knew it wouldn't, because of your little hints, such as: James was so happy, but if he hadn't been so happy he might have noticed that Harry wasn't as happy. For me, that was the moment I knew this piece would not end, well, happily.

While you never flat out stated that Harry was depressed, you gave all the right signs--like being sad at times, weak sex drive, making mistake and not being able to concentrate at work. He got defensive and lashed out randomly, perhaps a side effect of the medication. I never knew he was on antidepressants, but if I reread your story a second time, I might have picked up on the clues.

When James woke up alone and heard silence in the house, I already knew that Harry was at the coast. You provided so much foreshadowing and it left me with a bad feeling, knowing the poor Harry would do something so terrible and so final. Finding Harry dead, although described minimally, was a very strong scene. I could envision a frozen cold body, with a lifeless look in the eyes. So sad. That just shows that depression is so powerful and no matter how much James loved Harry and took care of him, Harry couldn't think straight or lost so much, without being able to recover, that suicide was the only way out.

I have one question: was Harry planning on committing suicide? Or did it just turn out that way? I'm sure the idea was in his head for a long time, but there were many pills, so Harry had stopped taking them. Either to have more to take, or just because he wanted to wean himself off? And increase his sex drive?

The strongest part was the end. You really leave off with a bang, Kit. It was so tragic and it was a great case of the "what ifs." What if Harry had lasted two more days? Would Harry have felt better, more loved, with the anniversary celebration? Or would he have been so far gone in his black hole that it wouldn't have made a difference? He might even have killed himself days after the anniversary anyway.

GAH! So sorry for the huge comment, Kit, but this story was so amazing. Now you've made a poor girl cry on a nice summer day. EVIL!

Hi Tiff!


Thank you VERY much for taking the time to make such a detailed comment, and for heaven's sake please don't apologise because it was 'huge'. I take that as a big compliment!




Sorry about that!
But I do sometimes write stories with happy endings!
And sometimes it's good to cry...



You are right, Harry had been thinking about it for awhile, but his final decision was relatively short notice... something snapped over Christmas. He'd stopped taking the pills, hoping that would help his sex drive, but the effects of the pills take quite awhile to wear off, and in any case his sex drive would still be reduced by the underlying depression and low self-esteem. When he did make his final decision, the leftover pills were just handily available. However, the chances are that even without any pills he would have died from hypothermia (the combination of vodka and cold)



The main tragedy for me was that James was so self-absorbed in his own happiness that he didn't see Harry's misery, and maybe he even turned a blind eye to it. James didn't really try to get Harry to communicate his feelings because he was afraid of 'rocking the boat' and alienating Harry.

Yes, I suppose the ending was predictable because the personalities of the characters determine the way things will turn out. Still it wasn't inevitable. There was always the slight hope that James would be able to see beyond his own happiness.

Thanks again for your comments!


Kit

OMG, this story is so moving, I feel compelled to discuss it further! This just touches on a topic we're all familiar with: depression. Personally, it's something that hits home and close to my heart, especially with my family. So your story means a lot to me.

These days people in general are much more self-absorbed. I don't mean that negatively, but there are so many pressures in the world, with work, family, and daily stresses. We're just no aware of other people, or we never know how serious a problem is until it's too late.

I don't consider James's self-absorbed ways to be the main tragedy. I think it's equal with Harry's tragedy, because James was so happy he couldn't see beyond that. On the other hand, Harry was so unhappy and depressed, he couldn't see far enough to ask for help or try to talk. In that sense, I think they are both to blame. However, James did come off a bit weak to me. He fell in love fast and tried so hard to please Harry, doing anything for him, and quickly backpeddaling anytime he upset Harry. If he had been a little harder and implemented tough love, maybe they could have had a good heart to heart talk, without Harry holing up into himself.

Sometimes I think suicide is inevitable. Is there a chance that some people don't want to be helped? Don't want to be saved? Or is that just the depression talking? This topic intrigues me very much and your story brought all these thoughts and questions out of me.

With every anthology, there is usually a story or two that I print out and save as a hard copy. I can confidently say that yours is the one this time around.

Oh and I have to say it again: EVIL! But I have read your other short stories, and I forgot the title of it, but it has a good ending. Something about a religion thing? lol. Does it come to mind? I'll have to check your site out again. Forgive me, my memory is crap.

However much this might be a lesson in the importance of communication in a relationship, I could feel for James. Some of us are very tentative, and when we're starting a new relationship we don't want to 'rock the boat'. If there are things that puzzle us, we wait, rather than bring them out in the open, especially with someone like Harry who has shown that there are subjects he doesn't want discussed.

A tragedy, and one that may have been avoidable, but very understandable.

Since it's appropriate, I hope you don't mind, Kit, but Beyond Blue is an Australian website that tries to help those with depression (amongst other things), and also to educate those about these illnesses.

A great story, Kit, though I'm still sad about how close Harry came to still being alive (maybe)

I'm not a psychologist and my knowledge of psychology is just that of an average layman. So what I'm going to say now on the subject may not use terms in their official psychological definitions. With that caveat, I will proceed...

For me, the difference between sadness and depression isn't the depth of unhappiness but the presence or absence of hope. No matter how miserable we are, it is not depression as long as we have hope that things will get better and that we will feel better. Once all hope is lost then suicide seems the only way to escape our misery.

My layman's view is that when our ancestors evolved the ability to use past experience and present observations to predict the probability of future outcomes, it was both a great advantage and a great disadvantage. The advantages are obvious. The disadvantage was that we could see the inevitability of death and the probability that other bad things (e.g. disease, injury, infant mortality, etc.) would happen to us. Therefore, to make life bearable we needed hope.

It doesn't matter that often the hope has no logical foundation, because the hope will keep us going anyway. No matter how many of his comrades a soldier sees fall in battle, as long as he has hope that he might succeed, he will continue to go into battle. The ones who die first in prison camps or in hostile environments are usually the ones who give up hope.

What I'm trying to say, in my usual long-winded way, is that I don't believe that suicide is inevitable, as long as somehow the depressed person can be given, or can find within himself, hope. That hope doesn't have to be realistic, but it has to real - i.e. be believable to the depressed person. In fact, if you're a cynic like me, you might think that no hope is realistic and that all hope is just a mind-brain construct that allows us to carry on living.

The problem is knowing that the depressed person has lost hope. If we know that, we can support him/her (maybe even physically prevent suicide) until new hope can grow again. This is a problem because the depressed person often takes great pains to prevent others from knowing that they've lost hope.



I think you're referring to 'Just Visiting', which definitely has a happy ending.
'Timing' is sort-of happy and definitely hopeful.
'Road Not Taken' is a little sad but also hopeful that things will get better.

Thanks again for taking the time to give your comments!


Kit

It seems that Harry's situation was hopeless. He obviously didn't generate any hope himself for whatever reason. His loss and sense of hopelessness had gone on for quite a while before he moved in with James. Harry's only possibility of hope would have to come from James. But James was too involved in his own happiness to recognize Harry's unhappiness.

Were there any opportunities for James to recognize Harry's problem? It seem there were but I'm not sure. There were some mood swings that could have been an indication. James may not have known that Harry was taking medication. Had he known, he would have realized that Harry had seen a doctor. When Harry quit taking his medicine, sacrificing his own well-being for the sake of improving their love life, James' happiness was magnified, but he didn't see Harry's darkening mood.

I, also, know virtually nothing about depression. It would have been wonderful had James known something of the matter or had made it his mission to find out. Graeme has pointed out one of the web sites available on the subject, There is a wealth of information available on the internet on all sorts of diseases; we should all take advantage of that when we or a loved one become ill. The key is for us to know our loved ones well enough to see the changes in their lives or to have their complete trust so that they will confide in us freely. If that mutual love and trust exist in sufficient measure, we have an opportunity to arm ourselves with knowledge. With knowledge, we can provide hope.

Tiff, it actually made me shed a tear or two. This one was indeed tragic. It is true to life though. Sometimes we don't realise how much someone we love is hurting. People often mask their pain. It builds to the point where the pain is unbearable. This story was well written even though the ending really made me sad.

Of course I don't mind! I think it's a great idea!

Kit

This story was enjoyable because there was an internet romance in it that was described very well, and where I could relate to the whole 'seeing each other for the first time' business, as well as the excitement of it.

Also, I thought you did James's denial of Harry's problems very well -- he wanted their relationship to be a certain way and constructed his own version of reality to fit that wish, ignoring the signs that things might not be the way he thought.

Then there was the foreshadowing, all those bitter little comments, which kind of came as a part of James's denial and which was essential to the story's enjoyability. Good job with that!

What you could do to improve your story further would be to think, sometimes, of whether the information you give is necessary, or if it's in the right place.

An example: '"Would you like me to hang your jacket up?" I asked as soon as we got inside my semi-detached house.'

Here, the mention of the fact that the house was semi-detached took away attention from the fact that Harry didn't want to take off his jacket -- was it really important that the house was semi-detached? From reading the rest of the story, I don't think so -- it emerges later what the house is like, and in a much more natural way. Here, it was out of place, and made the text flow less smoothly than it could have.

This was a tiny detail, but it's something that happened every now and then in the story, and I think it'd be even better if you took a look at this kind of thing and maybe edited out a few surplus words here and there.

Anyway, thanks for a very enjoyable story -- it was a pleasure to read it!

Thanks for reading the story and for your comments.

You certainly understood exactly what I'd tried to communicate with this story!



Thank you also for that very useful criticism. It is very much appreciated.
I completely agree with you! :-)

As a sort-of excuse I will say that this story was written in a much shorter time than usual. I hadn't even thought about doing a story for the anthology until just 4 days before the deadline for submission. However, I realise that it's a pretty puny excuse, and I can't honestly say I would have spotted the flaw even if I'd had double the amount of time.

Using 'too many words' is one of the things that I know I have a tendency to do. That is why, after writing two novels, I decided to try my hand at my first short stories. Writing a short story was a good way of disciplining myself to use words more economically. However, it's obvious that I've not yet completely eradicated that flaw!

Thanks for pointing it out.

I will certainly go back, look at the story again and cut out some surplus words.

Hopefully the version currently posted in the anthology can be revised.

Thanks again!


Kit

Hey Kit!

As I told you before, I really liked this story. You can tell there's somtheing wrong with Harry almost since you introduce him and it was nice to see how things were cooking for the grand finale.

It's a nice contrast to the other stuff I read from you. It reminded me how nice it feels to cut oneself's veins!!!

Cheers
G

Hi Kit!

Awesome story! You made me cry! Which, while not an especially difficult task for an author accomplish, almost ensures that I enjoyed the story.

I have to say I didn't predict the end. Perhaps that makes me dense, but I was just happily reading along waiting for events to unfold.

I tried to put myself both in Henry's shoes and in James'; however, it was difficult with James and nearly impossible with Henry. Nevertheless, I enjoyed the story immensely and even if I couldn't directly imagine myself in their positions I definitely still empathized with the characters.

My final analysis of the situation is perhaps a bit harsh. I think that James was 'too good' for Henry. The way I'm looking at it is that James essentially went out of his way to meet all of Henry's physical and emotional needs and demanded nothing in return (laudable indeed!). Whereas Henry couldn't even offer the emotional trust to open up to him.

Of course I understand Henry's situation, and I'm not exactly blaming him, but I think my sympathies are ultimately more with James and I find him a more noble character.

On the other hand, just to play Devil's Advocate, if I carefully examine James I'm wondering just what his motives were. I believe that he did love Henry, but to a large extent I wonder if it wasn't primarily the 'idea' of Henry that he loved. Or the 'role' Henry filled in his life. I think this because there doesn't seem to have been a reciprocal give and take in any aspect of their relationship, even with regards to emotional intimacy (which I'm biased into thinking is the primary aspect of a relationship which requires give and take). If Henry was never 'giving anything back' emotionally, I mean nothing beyond the 'polite little things' (as the story indicated several times at the beginning), then who was James really in love with? Was Henry ultimately right when he asked, "how can you love me, you don't even know me?"

I think James could have loved Henry if Henry had given him the chance, but I sort of feel like James never got the chance. As a result, it seems to me, that it was primarily just the concept of Henry that James loved. On the other hand, depending on how you define it, I definitely think James did 'love' Henry. I do believe he had an emotional connection to him and I do believe he grieved and hurt significantly as a result of what happened. I just have to ask if it was really the essence of Henry himself that he loved and grieved for.

I hope you don't mind that speculation about the characters. It is just my opinion and personally speaking I found the story very satisfying and enjoyable when viewed from that perspective, but I'm sure different people take different things from it. Indeed, that is the beauty of your writing

By the way, while I was reading it, I did think "this is beautifully written", so great job on the technical aspect as well



Hmm, I see your point, Maria, but I did not have that reaction at all and it didn't detract from the story at all for me.

When I read for pleasure I tend to read extremely deliberately and usually quite slowly. I consider each sentence as I read them if they're interesting, and I routinely pause longer between paragraphs to consider the narration or dialogue.

For me, I recall reading that line and paragraph immediately afterward in which James speculates on Henry's motives. I remember thinking " 'semi-detached house', how lovely it is to hear that phrase again. I don't think I've heard it in over year. James does seem like the sort that would be in a semi-detached house. I could imagine him in a detached house though. But no, semi-detached does fit better"

Then went on and speculated on the jacket, "Is Henry cold? Does he really want to be prepared for a quick get away? Nah, I don't think it's either of those. I think he's just shy. I think he'd feel more exposed without his jacket on. I couldn't imagine telling someone I won't let them have my jacket though. It does send one of the three messages before mentioned and I wouldn't want to send that message to my host. Although Henry probably isn't think any of this. Wait, what if he has something he's hiding by wearing the jacket?"


Anyway, it didn't mess up the flow for me at all, because I was quite happy and quite inclined anyway to individually ponder both comments.

Just my thoughts,

Awesome story, Kit!
-Kevin

Hi Kevin!

Thanks very much for reading my story and especially for taking the time to make such interesting and thoughtful comments. I hope you realise that not all my stories make people cry!

As usual, you raise some very interesting points.



Well, Harry is clinically depressed, so because of his illness he can't really be blamed for the way he is. We can only speculate what his personality was like before he was ill or what it might have been if he'd had a chance to recover. James certainly deserves some sympathy, but I'm not sure that I would describe him as noble, and I tend to agree more with your Devil's Advocate analysis.



Now, with your usual perspicacity, you've hit on what for me was probably the main theme of this story. It is a question very close to my own heart and is also the main theme of 'Tough Question', which, being a novel, could explore the matter in greater detail. There are so many different types of love, and even different types of romantic love. Can it be 'real' love if you don't really know the person very well?

These sorts of questions have been asked in better ways and addressed by better writers than I. Certainly, I don't pretend to really understand the question, much less have any answers, but I do think it is useful to try to step back and ask ourselves such questions occasionally.

How well do we really know another person, and if we really love them, are we sometimes afraid to know them better? Maybe sometimes a parent suspects their child is gay but is afraid to actually do anything to find out for sure. Maybe we think our best friend may be addicted to something but we try not to notice the signs because we are afraid of what they indicate.

Another theme in JTMD is the need to be receptive to signs of unhappiness from our loved ones, even when they are trying to hide that unhappiness. The signs were there for James to see if he hadn't been so absorbed in his own happiness and so fearful of upsetting Harry. There is no doubt in my mind that, in his own way, James really loved Harry. However, you hit the nail on the head when you wrote: 'I wonder if it wasn't primarily the 'idea' of Henry that he loved. Or the 'role' Henry filled in his life.'

Sometimes it is possible that people love the idea of being in love more than they really love the object of that love. There is an old song with the first line ' Falling in Love with Love is falling for make-believe!' - I don't think that completely describes James, but it at least partially describes him.



Again, I think that you have captured the situation exactly. The only questions that might be added to your analysis are: 'Should James have noticed the signs of Harry's illness? Could he have done anything if he had noticed them?' and 'Can James be blamed for not noticing and not at least trying to help Harry?'



Of course I don't mind!
For me, one of the great advantages of having my stories on GA is that the forums give me an opportunity to get readers' thoughts, opinions and viewpoints.

To me, a story is just a collection of words that form the basic skeleton upon which the reader places flesh. The reader does this by using his/her imagination and relating the things described in the story to their own experiences. What skills I have as a writer can be used to guide the reader's imagination along the path I want it to take, but ultimately I have no real control over how the reader will interpret the story.

When the reader has outlooks and experiences that are different from my own, they may see things in my story that I never intended. However, as long as they stick to the skeleton of the situation and events I described, their interpretation is at least as valid as my own. When readers share their different interpretations with me, it gives me great pleasure. Not only does it give me insight into their experiences and opinions, but also it is almost as if they were rewarding me for writing the story by giving me back their own variation of that story.



Why, thank you, kind sir!!



Kit

Hi Kit,

Really enjoyed the story, if I can use the word 'enjoyed' for what was for me an incredibly moving and affecting piece of writing.

Reading it the first time I was, like a lot of your readers, just caught up in the story and wondering where it would lead, I didn't imagine that ending at all.  It was only on a second reading that I was able to spot the signs of Harry's depression, it made me consider my position as reader as being similar to James, only after the fact do things become clear when in fact the clues were there all along.

It's so easy in a relationship to paper over any cracks that appear and let an idea of how things could be alter your perspective.  I do think that on some level James must have thought he deserved a 'difficult' relationship, perhaps he thought it was the price to pay for being with someone younger.  I took James' willingness to overlook Harry's distance in the relationship as a sign that he felt unworthy of his love and didnt want to risk losing him by making demands.

I look forward to reading more from you.

This is the exact same question which has been on my mind a great deal lately! I shall definitely have to check out 'Tough Question'!


I think you explored these themes very well in JTMD!



Hmm, I think that depends on what you mean by 'should'. Should he have noticed in that it would likely have made things much better? I think that's a definite yes. Should he have been reasonably expected to have noticed? I can't really answer that question. My gut reaction is that yes, he should have, but I can see how he didn't. I'm assuming you mean the latter question, and yeah I can't completely answer it, but I like to think I'd have noticed in his place and done something about it.


What an excellent analogy! I hadn't thought of it quite like that before but I agree with you.


-Kevin

Dear Kit,

I think whenever two people get together one loves the other more than the other loves the one. Making a lasting relationship is, to some extent, finding a way to overcome that problem. (And it is sometimes very difficult, especially if the pair change roles.) Perfectly equal love of each partner for the other is very rare in my experience.

If one is rich and strong and the other is poor and weak it is a very difficult thing to find a solution. That is one thing I see behind your story and I have been very aware of that problem in nearly all my relationships. And, of course it is one reason why relationships where there is a large difference in age or academic achievement or wealth or ... or ... are difficult. I could have been a don's toy-boy or a publisher's and I shied away because I couldn't take the inequality of the relationship.

And it is a bit like the problem of growing up and learning how to stand up for yourself against your father.

And knowing all that and thinking about it I *still* didn't see the end coming. I'm neither stupid nor unobservant either.

Love,
Anthony

kit,

i loved your story as i have all your stories.

i do wonder about one thing. if henry was on meds and james was paying for henry's upkeep, how come james didn't know henry was on meds or seeing a doctor?

Thanks for the compliment!


It's set in the UK, where we have a National Health Service. So it's free to see the doctor and the prescription charge is quite small (equivalent to about $10?). So James could probably easily have afforded it from his own small money supply. Also, Henry thought James had seen the doctor about headaches.

Thanks again!

Kit

ah, thanks. with that minor detail out of the way i feel much better about the overall story. are you working on a story currently?

Have you read my very latest story, Chat Room, in the Ghost anthology put online a few days ago?

I've been working on a new novel for awhile and have just started on a spin-off story using the same major characters who were in Tapping.

Of course, if I get inspired for a short story, I'll write it. However, with short stories I tend to go from inspiration to completed story in just a couple of weeks, so there is only a very narrow time window when I'm able to say I'm working on it!

Kit