For those who are fans of Grey's Anatomy, there is a new story line about two women, presumably bisexual, who have feelings for each other. Lesbians have cried foul saying that it's exploitative, because there was mentioning of them having a threesome with one of the men. Thus, it's thought by lesbian groups that it's exploitative for bisexual women to be mentioned. This to me seems like a real crock. I mean people are sexual. Some like boys. Some like girls. Some like both. Why does it seem that there's always controversy? The same can be said of Katy Perry's Song "I Kissed a Girl (And I Liked It)". Just because there's a presumption of bisexuality, it exploits lesbians, or at least that's the claim. Does anyone else think this is insanity? If there were more instances of guys kissing guys on tv, I wouldn't be offended. I think it's hot for guys to be curious or bisexual. I'm guessing that most gay men would agree with me. Why do lesbians not feel the same way about girls kissing girls? I really wish we had some lesbians on GA, because I would love to hear from them.

It probably has something to do with the part where they're likely doing this only for ratings.

Its not the first time, and certainly not the last, that a show turned to depicting lesbians as a ratings booster.

Hell even star trek is guilty of this on several occasions, even making alternate universe episodes for no other purpose except to turn otherwise reserved women into sex-goddess lesbians who boil the blood of the audience and most importantly: gain ratings. One thing these shows typically will shy away from though, is showing two men kissing, because that typically scares off large quantities of insecure men.

I don't know, in the uk as far as Im aware (I havent really been watching much tv the last few years) the programes that have had same sex stuff as pretty much been male/male recently. I don't even know of any tv lesbian couples that arent part of tv history.

The lesbians I know aren't bothered by the song either, or at least they havent reacted to it, I think they agree its catchy, quite hot and fun.

i think what people from both sides were reacting to was what they thought was it promoting messing around for the sake of it, for fashion maybe, or maybe even not that, but i guess concerned that it will part of opening up sexuality, experimenting rather than sticking to the boundaries.

i remember another high profile sensensationalist kiss was madonna and britney.

celia

Sex sells. Controversial sex sells exceedingly well. Just look at controversial stories in local news telecasts. They attract viewers and prestigious awards.

I doubt Katy Perry and her record label are unhappy in the least about the controversy her song has raised. The exploited lesbians are only helping sales and possibly damaging their credibility by objecting.

THE MEDIA HAS BEEN EXPLOITING STRAIGHT PEOPLE FOR YEARS!!!!


yeah, that about wraps what I think about this topic up. Kissing isn't exploitation, and anyone who thinks it is needs to get their knickers out of the twist.

I'd add one extra piece: It's not Lesbians that are crying foul. It's Lesbian lobby/activist groups that are crying foul.

Some lobby groups (and this applies to more than just gay/lesbian groups) cry foul whenever they think someone might be doing something that isn't completely politically correct (from their point of view). Cries of bias, cries of exploitation, cries of stereotyping... it all sounds very familiar.

The others above have, I think, identified the real reasons: ratings... and the fact that sex sells. For reasons I've never managed to work out, a lot of men seem to find the idea of having a threesome with a pair of lesbians erotic. To each their own, I suppose.

There is a degree of truth in what the lobby groups are complaining about, but they have to be reasonable with their demands. Especially as they don't know what the story line will be. They are complaining about what might be. What would they think if the story line leads to a threesome, and then the guy finds himself on the outer as the girls find each other much more interesting? That would be a shocker, but it would also open things up for a lot of discussion, and hence interest in the show. Would that be 'exploiting' lesbianism, or would it be educating people about lesbianism?

I do realize that it's probably not the majority view of lesbians, but the lobby groups most likely have mostly lesbian members. Graeme, I happen to believe that it could possibly be educational. There really aren't a lot of lesbian characters on tv who don't fit the stereotype of a butch type. They are strong characters, and I think this relationship will be positive for the show in general. There was a gay couple on the show, but they didn't seem to be on the show during Season 3, so I guess the producers feel the need to make up for it.

yeah I think its educational. expanding people's minds/perceptions.
so are the lesbian groups anti-bi rather than actually worried about exploitation, i mean that the two reasons are embroiled. threatened by it, or simply not understand it themselves? edit to add: or i suppose maybe believe its not lifelike and exploitation in that 'bisexuality' used as a tool only to get men closer to lesbian sex...? (I'm only suggesting q's, not implying that people believe a,b,c)
celia

In this day and age, most countries are starting to accept gay/lesbian couples, in some form or another, even if it's just a smidgen (or a smudge, whatever you want to choose).
For shows to have gay or lesbian couples is not really all that new. There are many shows out there with the couples, you just have to be willing to look for them. It's still funny that the media and all these groups go nuts when shows or songs have some type of gay theme. It's like they've never seen it happen before.
But...it also ticks me off when they focus on just the gay themed songs, shows, stories, ect and not take a look at the het side of things.
Like it was said back in the 'I kissed a girl' thread, 'Lollipop' isn't about a sucker! They need to get over it.

Actvist to me are like slide, there good on one part but arfwul on the other are just bitching or making big deals out of nothing. and all agenda driven.

I don't love the song, or mind tv shows showing same sex kissing, we had to see straight kissing forever.

I have a lot of thoughts on this topic

First off, as Graeme pointed out, it's lobbying groups that are complaining. They do indeed complain about a lot of things, and it could just as easily be them complaining about Will and Grace or Queer As Folk, both of which I personally liked and enjoyed. If that happened (indeed I'm pretty sure that did happen) then it would be a bit unfair for a bunch of lesbians to be sitting around in their lesbian forum saying, "those gays guys, there's just no pleasing them. They finally gain media recognition in a way that shows their lives and now they're complaining."

The point is, one sector of the gay community cannot speak for every other sector. Over the years, some of these lobbyists have complained about quite a few things I personally took no offense to, or even approved of and appreciated. I'm not trying to pick on lobbyists either. I think they're our best resource, and one day I plan to join their ranks, but that doesn't mean they're always going to represent the will and opinions of all gay people.

Anyway, apart from all that they actually have point. The general argument is against gay people being exploited for straight entertainment. That's where this comes in. This isn't being marketed to lesbians, it's designed to turn on straight guys. Also, while I can't really say since I haven't seen the show, I suspect there's the typical argument that it misrepresents lesbians and bisexual women. This is exactly the arguments made against Will and Grace. Many gays said that it was playing to stereotypes AND 'neutering' Will and Jack for the comfort and enjoyment of straight people (and indeed I think the show was a bit too cautious in terms of not showing the same level of physical/sexual contact between Will or Jack's boyfriends compared to Grace's). So maybe there is a point to that argument. Maybe these are examples of straight people just gaining entertainment from GLBTs without taking us seriously.

Then there's the whole 'misrepresented' or 'perpetuates stereotypes' thing. QAF really took the heat on this one. Well the thing is that that argument is always going to be a 'well yes and no' thing. Some gay people really are like the QAF gang. Some gay people are like Will or Jack. Some lesbians are like the L Word girls. Some bisexuals are probably like the girls on Grey's Anatomy. Are all gays, lesbians, or bisexuals like them? Of course not. So yes, some segments of the population are being misrepresented, and some 'stereotypes' are being perpetuated, but at the same time some of these representations and stereotypes ARE spot on for some GLBT people.

The other issue is that things like this are always a double edged sword. Will mainstream 'exploitation' of gays and lesbians for entertainment ultimately normalize gay and lesbian life and make straight people more aware of them and less intimidated? I think so. I think it's ashame if the first thing a girl's friends think of when she announces that she's a lesbians is "Ohh! Just like that 'I kissed a girl song'!" But on the other hand at least they have some reference point. At least they're not looking at her like she's grown a second head and announced that she's from Jupiter.

So personally, I think that to some degree the above song and television shows are exploitive, and they do misrepresent gay people, but I still think they ultimately do more good than harm. I think that overall they spread acceptance and understanding to straight people and provide GLBT people with a valuable opportunity to see people with their feelings, emotions, and issues represented in the media.

So yes, I would say that there is something to the argument that this is exploitive to lesbians and bisexual women, but again I would point out that not all lesbians are complaining, and also that I think that ultimately it might have a net positive effect on society in terms of it's acceptance and understanding of lesbian/bisexual issues.

-Kevin