Max and Josh

[NightOwl88]

Sorry its taken me so long to get here guys. i've been working nearly round the clock on lovers blind and have been working on loading an MP3 player for one my many little cousins.

 

now I don't know why but it didn't save my post properly... so again...

 

*ignores evil Sandra* (twice now! )

 

 

 

 

Owl! You did it again! I lived through the chapter and really enjoyed such a looooong chapter! though I wouldn't mind if the next chapter was posted earlier than it's due... it even could be a bit shorter, if it contained the solution of the Tom/Danny situation...

 

 

 

lol feel free to ignore Momma Rush, she just likes to tease you lol. I am glad that you liked the content and length of the chapter, i think it is one of the longest ones to date. I will have the next chapter out to you as soon as i can, I can't promise a solution to the situation...but I can make it a bit clearer?

 

Best Wishes, and thanks for stopping in

NightOwl

 

Read the latest chapter a couple of days ago, but didn't get to this part of the site until now. Fascinating treatment of motivation, especially on the part of the grandfathers. The boys' relationship establishes serious tension among the adults, although not everyone shows it...yet. I think there's going to be at least one or more flare-ups before things settle down.

 

I am glad that you enjoyed the chapter, and have taken the time to stop in. You're quiet right, we haven't seen the last flare-up about the boy's relationship, Aaron Mathew's will make a few more apperances.

 

Best Wishes,

NightOwl

[NightOwl88]

Hey Yall.

 

i know it took a bit to get this out to you but Max and Josh 17 is now up in the E-fiction section.

I hope you all enjoy it.

 

I should warn you though that this chapter contain's some disturbing imagery and themes.

It includes mention and slight description of rape, sexual abusive, extreme violence and

attempted suicide. These WILL NOT be common themes in the story but will make appearances,

in this chapter and in others in the future, read with caution.

 

Max and Josh CH17

 

 

[Caedus]

So after catching up to the latest chapter I have a few comments about the characters, specifically Max, Josh, and Tom.

 

I like how you portrayal of Tom's self-loathing homophobia through his his disturbing sketches, it gives us readers more depth into the inner workings of people like Tom, so disgusted with what they are, but unable to suppress their homosexual tendencies. Can't wait to read more fleshed out in the future, especially his artistic abilities.

 

Max constant need to save everyone and heal their wounds is a very admirable trait, which shines through despite his dark past in Chicago. However it may be this very trait that's a weakness as well as an advantage. His capacity for helping others seems to be the main reason why he involved himself with Josh and while feelings are evident between the two, their relationship seems..unbalanced. Max seems almost too good to be true in this regard since most people wouldn't be able to handle being a therapist and a boyfriend at the same time.

 

Which leads me to Josh, despite Max's assistance, Josh still struggles with insecurity and self-esteem issues. He rubs me the wrong way because he seems far too dependent on Max, which may explain his very irrational behavior towards Max when he saw Kylie with him

in his room. It'll be interesting how you use Josh in future chapters, since Josh's constant need for reassurance in his relationship could potentially breed resentment in

Max and make his fears become reality. Of course this depends on how much capacity Max has left dealing with Tom to handle Josh.

[NightOwl88]

So after catching up to the latest chapter I have a few comments about the characters, specifically Max, Josh, and Tom.

 

I like how you portrayal of Tom's self-loathing homophobia through his his disturbing sketches, it gives us readers more depth into the inner workings of people like Tom, so disgusted with what they are, but unable to suppress their homosexual tendencies. Can't wait to read more fleshed out in the future, especially his artistic abilities.

 

Max constant need to save everyone and heal their wounds is a very admirable trait, which shines through despite his dark past in Chicago. However it may be this very trait that's a weakness as well as an advantage. His capacity for helping others seems to be the main reason why he involved himself with Josh and while feelings are evident between the two, their relationship seems..unbalanced. Max seems almost too good to be true in this regard since most people wouldn't be able to handle being a therapist and a boyfriend at the same time.

 

Which leads me to Josh, despite Max's assistance, Josh still struggles with insecurity and self-esteem issues. He rubs me the wrong way because he seems far too dependent on Max, which may explain his very irrational behavior towards Max when he saw Kylie with him

in his room. It'll be interesting how you use Josh in future chapters, since Josh's constant need for reassurance in his relationship could potentially breed resentment in

Max and make his fears become reality. Of course this depends on how much capacity Max has left dealing with Tom to handle Josh.

 

Hello Ceadus, it's good to see you in the Topic. I hope You'll be a regular here. I'm really glad you stopped in and that you have so much to say.

 

I am glad that you have shown such a deep interest in Tom, I've been worring about him to be honest. Tom's sketches are a big part of him, even though the talent isn't a well known fact. I sort of modled it after a mental exercise I read about once called

'Eradicating Demons', you make a representation of something that is wrong or troubling you, usually a painting or drawing and then you destroy it. You're supposed to pour your negative feelings into the work and by destroying it it helps you move past it. Only in Tom's case instead of destroying the sketches he keeps them as a way of working out his secret desires. Tom will be making more appearances later in the story after the introduction of another character in the near future and his sketch work will play a very big part of his character.

 

Max...yes Max is a 'hero'he can't stand to see someone else hurting and he does have a natural talent for helping others. You're right though, it is both a blessing and a curse, he gets TOO involved and doesn't keep objective enough, doesn't always think things through in his rush to help. I wouldn't say that his helping people thing is what led him to Josh, Josh and Frank actually made the initial contact with Max, Max's 'heroness' came about later in the friendship; but it did/does play large role int heir friendship.

I agree with you, their relationship is somewhat unbalanced, thats a character development I am working on actually lol.

 

Josh he is indeed dependant on Max, to him Max is the only person who has ever pushed him, made him 'better'. I wrote a bit much of my former self into Josh, I had insecurity and esteem issues when i was younger, and still struggle with them from time to time. I am currently working more on Josh, his main problem is that he has nothing that defines him, nothing that he excels at; unlike the rest of the characters. I plan on Josh asserting himself more often and becoming more confident in future chapters. I just can't be specific here for ruining the story lol.

 

 

I thank you so much for stopping in and giving me your thoughts, they have given me many things to think about. I hope you enjoy where I take the story and the characters in future chapters.

 

Best,

NightOwl.

[Nephylim]

Hmmm I am finding this thread as interesting as the story... almost.

 

Tom is turning out to be very interesting. It's all I can do to stop myself liking him and I would REALLY like to see his photographs. He is soooo messed up and I love characters like that. I like the oblique reference to a new character with the suggestion they will be close to Tom. A potential boyfriend maybe. And I wonder if it might change the tone of the drawings.

 

As for Max and Josh. I have to say that I don't see a particular inbalance in their relationship. Just becaue he is insecure and tends towards jealousy, and just because he doesn't go rushing in to rescue situations like Max does doesn't mean he isn't strong in his own way. He was the strong one when Max was ill for example. It has already been established that Max likes to help and 'save' people and he is being like this with Josh... doesn't mean that Josh needs saving.

 

I actually relate more to Josh than Max. Max has a touch of the 'too good to be true' on occasion. Josh seems more 'real' somehow and Tom... well Tom is as 'real as you can get. Way to go Fay too, I really like her. I like straight (as in straight talking) and feisty

[NightOwl88]

Hmmm I am finding this thread as interesting as the story... almost.

 

Tom is turning out to be very interesting. It's all I can do to stop myself liking him and I would REALLY like to see his photographs. He is soooo messed up and I love characters like that. I like the oblique reference to a new character with the suggestion they will be close to Tom. A potential boyfriend maybe. And I wonder if it might change the tone of the drawings.

 

As for Max and Josh. I have to say that I don't see a particular inbalance in their relationship. Just becaue he is insecure and tends towards jealousy, and just because he doesn't go rushing in to rescue situations like Max does doesn't mean he isn't strong in his own way. He was the strong one when Max was ill for example. It has already been established that Max likes to help and 'save' people and he is being like this with Josh... doesn't mean that Josh needs saving.

 

I actually relate more to Josh than Max. Max has a touch of the 'too good to be true' on occasion. Josh seems more 'real' somehow and Tom... well Tom is as 'real as you can get. Way to go Fay too, I really like her. I like straight (as in straight talking) and feisty

 

hey Nephy, its so nice to see you here.

 

I am glad that you find the thread interesting, I'd like to continue with that lol.

 

Tom maybe the most thought out character I have. I've fleshed most others out in my head but there is always something missing with them but Tom, at least in thought, is fully formed. I have everything he will become and will do worked up already. I would really like to see his sketches too, even though i am the one who imagined them, but alas I have no artistic talent. Its more then a suggestion, Tom WILL be getting close to a future character, but as to WHO it will be is a surprise. I can't comment on what change might go through his drawings.

 

Maybe imbalance isn't the appropriate word, or perhaps thats just how I see it. Their personality differences are, while not complamentary, work well with eachother. You have a point though the savior doesn't ALWAYS need to save someone.

 

That is something I have been worrying about Max seeming too good to be true, though at the moment I don't see how to rectify that. I think Josh seems more real because he DOES have more insecurities than Max, who always seems so calm and confident, people have issues, like Josh. Tom...well i admit I like Tom, but thats cause I know everything about him...well almost everything. Fay lol, i wrote too much of my cousin Katie into her, though there are some deffinate differences, such as Fay's ability to have prudence.

 

best Wishes,

NightOwl

[Young Sage]

So Tom's a power bottom, huh? That'll be interesting to see played out. A new character for him, hmm? I'd let you use Keith, but he says he's not interested (even HE has limits). "Tom WILL be getting close to a future character, but as to WHO it will be is a surprise." Will it be Max or Josh? Please say it will be Max or Josh (jk). I can see a football player being the new character. If Tom turns to rainbows, though, I'll have to hurt you. And I will plan it out with Nephy beforehand as well.

 

Surprisingly, I don't seem to regard Max as an archetypal "hero" type like others do. Maybe it's because of how I'm reading it. Maybe it's because I didn't pick up clues where everyone else did. He doesn't seem to be "too good to be true" to me; his Chicago backstory proves this. He needs Josh just as much as Josh needs him. I don't see an imbalance here. Again, maybe it's just me.

[NightOwl88]

So Tom's a power bottom, huh? That'll be interesting to see played out. A new character for him, hmm? I'd let you use Keith, but he says he's not interested (even HE has limits). "Tom WILL be getting close to a future character, but as to WHO it will be is a surprise." Will it be Max or Josh? Please say it will be Max or Josh (jk). I can see a football player being the new character. If Tom turns to rainbows, though, I'll have to hurt you. And I will plan it out with Nephy beforehand as well.

 

Surprisingly, I don't seem to regard Max as an archetypal "hero" type like others do. Maybe it's because of how I'm reading it. Maybe it's because I didn't pick up clues where everyone else did. He doesn't seem to be "too good to be true" to me; his Chicago backstory proves this. He needs Josh just as much as Josh needs him. I don't see an imbalance here. Again, maybe it's just me.

 

Other then his sketches I cannot comment on what position Tom will find himself in in the future. Yes a new character for him, though thats not my only reason to introduce him. I wouldn't want Keith anyway, he strikes me more as an aggressive, exclusive bottom. Sorry lol. I can't tell you who the character is, hell it could be Max or Josh, but you'll never get it out of me HA. You and Nephy plotting my death is MORE then enough reason for me to keep Tom from going rainbow on us...well TOO rainbow at least.

 

i am glad that you don't see Max as a hero or something too good to be true, not because it relieves me own worries/conceptions but because its your honest opinion, I love that. One could argue though that since Max was so victimized in Chicago (it gets explained more later). Max does need Josh as much as Josh needs him, i think that is something everyone can agree on. Perhaps the imbalance is only something I percived.

 

thanks for stopping in Young sage.

Best,

NightOwl

[Benji]

Other then his sketches I cannot comment on what position Tom will find himself in in the future. Yes a new character for him, though thats not my only reason to introduce him. I wouldn't want Keith anyway, he strikes me more as an aggressive, exclusive bottom. Sorry lol. I can't tell you who the character is, hell it could be Max or Josh, but you'll never get it out of me HA. You and Nephy plotting my death is MORE then enough reason for me to keep Tom from going rainbow on us...well TOO rainbow at least.

 

i am glad that you don't see Max as a hero or something too good to be true, not because it relieves me own worries/conceptions but because its your honest opinion, I love that. One could argue though that since Max was so victimized in Chicago (it gets explained more later). Max does need Josh as much as Josh needs him, i think that is something everyone can agree on. Perhaps the imbalance is only something I percived.

 

thanks for stopping in Young sage.

Best,

NightOwl

 

.......... Hey Nightowl!

 

Interesting chapter, bringing in the dark psyche of Tom was move I did not expect here! Obviously hangs on to the notion that the most reverent of faith sometimes have much deeper issues in themselves. Tom has surpassed that in his denial to profess as much, to counter his feelings against his beliefs that come out very warped . I'm guessing he lost the war within himself in repudiating his sexuality and cried out before committing either act. His 'prey' antagonists became his salvation in his warped mind world by retribution back at him, it is actually hard to believe that Tom would have sought help.... but then again there is Max! Definitely a hero in the saga, putting his life in jeopardy to salvage that of a disillusioned Tom.

[NightOwl88]

.......... Hey Nightowl!

 

Interesting chapter, bringing in the dark psyche of Tom was move I did not expect here! Obviously hangs on to the notion that the most reverent of faith sometimes have much deeper issues in themselves. Tom has surpassed that in his denial to profess as much, to counter his feelings against his beliefs that come out very warped . I'm guessing he lost the war within himself in repudiating his sexuality and cried out before committing either act. His 'prey' antagonists became his salvation in his warped mind world by retribution back at him, it is actually hard to believe that Tom would have sought help.... but then again there is Max! Definitely a hero in the saga, putting his life in jeopardy to salvage that of a disillusioned Tom.

 

 

Hey Benji, sorry it's taken me so long to get it got busy here for a few days.

 

You know me, i like to keep things interesting. I've siad it before but Tom might be the most well formed character I have ever written, i knew from the start exactly what would be happening with him. I think though that you have an ever better grasp of Tom's psyche then I do though, you seem to have analyzed him very well. Indeed in the world of his sketches having the tables turned on him is exactly what you say, his salvation, as well as punishment. What I haven't described, but will shortly, is his reasons for looking for help. i can't mention them here as that would ruin the surprise but I will chronicle them in the next chapter.

Max...what can I say he is good, always has to be at the forefront of the line, has to catch anyone who is falling. But will that come back to bite him in the butt. i wonder....

 

Thanks for stopping in Benji, you (and all the rest of my friends) mean a lot me.

[NightOwl88]

Hey yall,

 

I know its been ages but I finally have a chapter out to you. I hope you enjoy it as i had a lot of fun writing it lol. So take a look, read/review if you feel like it, you know I loving hearing from you.

 

Max and Josh Ch18

 

Best,

NightOwl

[Nephylim]

Of course I liked it... it had everything. Romance, excitement, psychological drama, fun, sexy fairies, vampires... and Wicca. I'm not Wiccan but any pagan references have to be appreciated. It's not as if there aren't enough Christian ones

[Caedus]

The "Savior Complex" mentioned in this chapter isn't to far off from my opinion of Max. What I'm curious about is why he's like that and whether the behavior and personality traits associated with it will negatively affect Max's relationships in future chapters. Tom's world is startling, but fascinating to analyze. If the sketches serve as a way for him to receive punishment and salvation, I wonder what level were on in a world that is likely a personal hell for him. He's done horrible things because of his internalized homophobia, but he's also my favorite character at this point. He seems like the only character that is trying to work on their flaws to me, and he's more complex than the others.

[NightOwl88]

Hey Nephy, Ceadus, I hope you guys are doing well.

 

Of course I liked it... it had everything. Romance, excitement, psychological drama, fun, sexy fairies, vampires... and Wicca. I'm not Wiccan but any pagan references have to be appreciated. It's not as if there aren't enough Christian ones

 

Hey Nephy, glad you stopped in,

 

I am glad that you liked the Chapter. I did want it to be a rich chapter but a little understated, i am glad that it came through. At first I hadn't planned on using any Pagan references until I checked the timestream for the story and saw that it was up to Halloween and I just had to do it lol. I glad that you liked the costume choices, I had a helluva time with them lol.

 

Best,

NightOwl.

 

The "Savior Complex" mentioned in this chapter isn't to far off from my opinion of Max. What I'm curious about is why he's like that and whether the behavior and personality traits associated with it will negatively affect Max's relationships in future chapters. Tom's world is startling, but fascinating to analyze. If the sketches serve as a way for him to receive punishment and salvation, I wonder what level were on in a world that is likely a personal hell for him. He's done horrible things because of his internalized homophobia, but he's also my favorite character at this point. He seems like the only character that is trying to work on their flaws to me, and he's more complex than the others.

 

Hey Caedus, glad to see you again

 

It really isn't far off from Max, he does like to help/save people lol. You really can't see why he is like that? I would have thought it would be obvious, maybe thats just me though. to be perfeclty honest I don't know how it will effect Max in the future lol. Tom is a unique character even to me, and I am the one who thought him up lol. I've said it before, he may be the best fleshed character I have ever written. It usually is the ones with the most dratic problems that try to work them out, those with smaller issues are usually just content to let them breeze by.

 

Best,

NightOwl.

 

 

Thanks again Nephy, Caedus, for stopping in; you know i love the feedback.

[Caedus]

Maybe I misspoke earlier. I know why he's like that, Max's circumstances make it clear why he's like that. I just don't get how someone would want to trouble themselves with other issues, what feeling of satisfaction they get from having that much input, and to some extent, control of their dependent's life. It would just seem like a burden to me, but thats my POV.

 

Also, I know I ragged on Josh and Max's relationship, but I think that was I forgot that these guys were in HS lol. So I'm kinda excited to see how you choose to develop their relationship in the future since it could go either way, but thats life for you.

[Nephylim]

I keep forgetting to comment in these forums. I am liking the way the story is going. Tom is like a ticking time bomb that could go either way. The choice of phantom of the opera for his costume was inspired. I am totally loving his dark brooding presence over everything. I would like to know what's in his most recent round of drawings. I am assuming the he will show them to the counsellor at his next appointment. THere is also, of course his father. You have told us that he would freak if he knew Tom was in couselling so of course I am assuming that at some point he will find out. And we all know what happens to the phantom.. or do we

 

I kind of like the way that Max and Josh are developing. They seem to have got back to where theyw were before the fight and Josh certainly seems more stable and less needy now but... I don't know, there seems to be something in the background. Josh is still jealous and has insecurities I think and Max is still rushing off in different directions. I don't know how it is all going ot work out but I am sure that we are going to have a lot of fun finding out.

[NightOwl88]

Maybe I misspoke earlier. I know why he's like that, Max's circumstances make it clear why he's like that. I just don't get how someone would want to trouble themselves with other issues, what feeling of satisfaction they get from having that much input, and to some extent, control of their dependent's life. It would just seem like a burden to me, but thats my POV.

 

Also, I know I ragged on Josh and Max's relationship, but I think that was I forgot that these guys were in HS lol. So I'm kinda excited to see how you choose to develop their relationship in the future since it could go either way, but thats life for you.

 

I feel I should appologize for the wording of my recent post, looking back at it I feel I might have come off a bit confrontational. People like Max (and I can say this as I am one of those kind of people) get satisfaction out of helping other people, becoming involved in their issues because it is int heir nature, the same as it is to get involved in the first place. They (we?) get satisfaction out of helping or guiding folks through difficult situations or times. Myself (and I worte this into Max) don't try and control a person's life, but try to help them take cantrol of it themselves. It can be a burden though, i fully agree.

 

Feel free to rag on their relationship when you feel the need to, such blantent and honest opinions help me to re-evaluate my characters, to make sure they are sill real. I am hoping that my portrayal of HS life is accurate, having never attended myself. I am glad that you are looking forward to where I take them, and I hope enjoy the direction I go in.

 

Best,

NightOwl

 

I keep forgetting to comment in these forums. I am liking the way the story is going. Tom is like a ticking time bomb that could go either way. The choice of phantom of the opera for his costume was inspired. I am totally loving his dark brooding presence over everything. I would like to know what's in his most recent round of drawings. I am assuming the he will show them to the counsellor at his next appointment. THere is also, of course his father. You have told us that he would freak if he knew Tom was in couselling so of course I am assuming that at some point he will find out. And we all know what happens to the phantom.. or do we

 

I kind of like the way that Max and Josh are developing. They seem to have got back to where theyw were before the fight and Josh certainly seems more stable and less needy now but... I don't know, there seems to be something in the background. Josh is still jealous and has insecurities I think and Max is still rushing off in different directions. I don't know how it is all going ot work out but I am sure that we are going to have a lot of fun finding out.

 

lol no worried Nephy. I am very glad that you're enjoying the story. I like that analogy, ticking timebomb, so very true. The Phantom idea, I STILL don't know what inspired me to do that; it just seemed like the right choice. Tom is a true outsider looking in to me. I can promise that his sketches will play a part quite often when he plays a part in one of the chapters, they; above anything else I'll concerning him, show his change in attitude and outlook.

 

His father, good luck with that. You shall indeed see what happens with him, but not for a bit.

 

Max and Josh have recovered from their fight fairly well. Josh DOES seem more stable doesn't he, but I wonder if apperances aren't decieving? Its amazing how often the backround becomes the foreground. I am hoping you will enjoy where I take Max and Josh, and how I play out their development.

 

Best,

NightOwl88

[NightOwl88]

Hey yall,

 

Sorry it took so long to get out you but Max and Josh Ch19 is up in efiction, I hope you all enjoy it.

 

Max and Josh Ch19

 

best,

NightOwl

[Benji]

Hey yall,

 

Sorry it took so long to get out you but Max and Josh Ch19 is up in efiction, I hope you all enjoy it.

 

Max and Josh Ch19

 

best,

NightOwl

 

............Nice chapter, still we have unresolved issues at the older generation mark. Why do I get the sense that it will be forced and resolved in the next chapter for acceptance of these two teens? Oh well blood is thicker then water as they say, and I think this will turn out for the better (next chapter will tell all)

 

Thanks for FINALLY getting off another chapter!!

Edited October 15, 2010 by Benji

[NightOwl88]

............Nice chapter, still we have unresolved issues at the older generation mark. Why do I get the sense that it will be forced and resolved in the next chapter for acceptance of these two teens? Oh well blood is thicker then water as they say, and I think this will turn out for the better (next chapter will tell all)

 

Thanks for FINALLY getting off another chapter!!

 

Benji, dude its been AGES!

 

I am glad that you liked the chapter. You didn't really think that I was going to stop there did you? I mean COME on. Trust me things get hairy with Grandpa Mathews. It might not be the next chapter but I promise it will be soon, and I hope you enjoy it:devil:

.

Best,

Nightowl,

 

P.S Your welcome

[Arkaea]

I love this story of yours. It is awesome I so enjoy reading it. I love all of your stories you are a fantastic writer.

 

 

[Arkaea]

Great story awesome chapter it gets better in every new chapter.

[NightOwl88]

Great story awesome chapter it gets better in every new chapter.

 

Hey Arkea, good to see you,

 

I am glad that youa re enjoying the story. Max and Josh was my first so it's sorta like my baby.

 

Best,

NightOwl

[NightOwl88]

Hey Yall,

 

Just wanted to let you know that Max and Josh is completely reposted along with a new chapter in G.A stories. Take a look and let me know.

 

Laters,

 

Max and Josh CH20

 

 

[NightOwl88]

Hey yall,

 

Just thought I would drop in and let yall know what Max and Josh 21 is now up in G.A.S. I hope you all enjoy it and take the time to let me know your thoughts, you know how addicted I am to feedback lol.

 

 

Best,

NightOwl

 

Max and Josh 21