Graeme Leopard Spots

[Timothy M.]

On 4/23/2015 at 3:57 AM, impunity said:

Are you hoping for another party? They probably don't have to wait that long for a second kiss.  

I'm hoping Neil's party isn't over yet ! So much more could happen. Thank god it's Saturday tomorrow.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[impunity]

Thank god it's Saturday tomorrow.

I think Graeme deserves the majority of the credit here.

[Graeme]

I don't think I deserve any credit for the day being Saturday....

[impunity]

I don't think I deserve any credit for the day being Saturday....

 

Ah, but you're the reason we love Saturdays. Otherwise, they'd be just another weekend day: lazing about, not working, cocktails. Ho hum. 

[Ken84050]

I love how pervasive the theme of parenting, including surrogate parent figures, is in this story: Liam's (strict but fair) ....

 

      I'm finding Liam's parents over-protective, perhaps because he's an only child.   My wife and I have brought up two sons, and when they were almost 18 we would certainly not have tried to control their lives as much as the Bellweathers control Liam's.   He does indeed deserve punishment for violently injuring another football player, but his parents' other stifling restrictions seem to me more appropriate to a 12-year-old.   Here are two examples.

 

“But you never told us exactly where it was going to be, and Doug wouldn’t tell us! We had no way of knowing if you got there safely or if you’d have any problems getting back. We also didn’t know much about the people who would be attending or what sort of party it would be.... For the last two hours, we’ve been worried sick ...."

“I think we need to discuss this some more,” his father said. “It sounds like you’re making another rash decision.”

Liam scowled as his eyes refocused. “What you mean is that you’re going to tell me what to do again, without trying to listen to me.”

 

      I agree with Liam.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Ken84050

[Timothy M.]

On 4/25/2015 at 12:59 PM, Ken84050 said:

I'm finding Liam's parents over-protective, perhaps because he's an only child.   My wife and I have brought up two sons, and when they were almost 18 we would certainly not have tried to control their lives as much as the Bellweathers control Liam's.   He does indeed deserve punishment for violently injuring another football player, but his parents' other stifling restrictions seem to me more appropriate to a 12-year-old. 

     

(I'm out of official likes right now, but I would have given you these Kitt likes anyway, since your post deserves multiple likes.)

I'm SO glad we agree on this (see my review) - and I guess the difference in attitude might not be a matter of cultural difference, like I thought. Or perhaps NZ teens and parents are more like Danes than Australians?

Edit: Ahh the estimated author happens to agree with us, what a relief.

Quote

Reply from Graeme (author)

Yes, you're right. Liam's parents are over-reacting. They're not thinking things through properly. How much of that is an initial bad response, and then trying to be consistent by following through on an initially wrong decision? Not good parenting, but it's definitely a very human reaction.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[Graeme]

I'll just say for now that this is not a cultural thing. Many Australian parents are not like how Liam's parents are currently behaving.

[impunity]

I commented on Liam's parents in my review but will add a few additional thoughts here. I actually looked back at his parents' reasoning for not letting him go to the party:

 

(from Chapter 35)

 

“But, Dad...” Liam couldn’t believe what he was hearing. He thought by waiting until Saturday morning to tell his parents about Clarissa’s invitation, they would be in a good mood and would allow him to go. Up until then, they had been supportive of anything he did that had to do with Neil.

 

“No buts, Liam. After your behaviour in last week’s football match, I’m not inclined to be lenient. If – and it’s a really big if – if we allow you to go to Neil’s party, you’re going to need to be on your absolute best behaviour.” Bruce Bellweather frowned. “However, at the moment I think the best thing for Neil is for you to not be there.”

 

“But, Dad...” Liam stopped and took a deep breath. “What do I need to do to show you that it’ll be okay for me to go to the party?”

 

His father scowled. “At this point in time, I can’t think of anything. You’re lucky that I managed to placate the parents of that guy you hit enough that they’re not going to push for the police to charge you. We – and I really mean you, somehow – will be picking up any out-of-pocket medical expenses they have. For your sake, I hope they won’t have too many because they’ll be coming out of your hide.”

 

“The guy was a homophobic bastard. You didn’t hear what he was saying to me all game!”

 

Mr. Bellweather took a step forward and poked Liam in the chest. “Nothing, absolutely nothing he could’ve said justifies what you did to him. And it’s that attitude why I don’t think you should go to Neil’s party. If anyone says anything to you, or if Neil rejects you – because I know that you’ll be hassling him to try to get him to go out with you – then I don’t trust you’ll keep your temper under control. I’m sorry, Liam, but you’ve burnt too many bridges.”

 

Liam glanced at his mother, who had been silent up until that point. “Mum? Please?”

 

“I’m afraid I have to agree with your father, Liam. There will be other parties, other chances.” She smiled sadly. “But we don’t feel you should go to this one.”

 

Liam glared. “Fine!” He spun on his heels, putting his back to his parents. “Neil only gets to turn eighteen once, and I’m going to miss it. Thanks a lot!” He marched out of the room, not waiting for a response. His mind was already busy trying to work out how he could get to Lilydale without his parents knowing.

 

So, they transitioned from considering to refusing in a single conversation. They also based the decision partly on what they thought was best for Neil, which was pretty inappropriate given that they had no justification for making decisions on Neil's behalf.

 

When I characterized Liam's parents as "strict but fair," I was actually thinking of their reactions in the immediate aftermath of Liam's revelation that he, Doug and Rod had been bullying Neil. I completely agree that they have become increasingly less fair as the story progressed.

Edited April 25, 2015 by impunity

[Timothy M.]

On 4/25/2015 at 7:01 PM, impunity said:

When I characterized Liam's parents as "strict but fair," I was actually thinking of their reactions in the immediate aftermath of Liam's revelation that he, Doug and Rod had been bullying Neil. I completely agree that they have become increasingly less fair as the story progressed.

(still out of likes but) I agree completely. The first punishment was fair and wise, since as Liam's mum pointed out, the chores they made him do, increased his attractiveness as a future partner (domestic skills).

As to Liam covering any medical expenses for the guy he hit, I can recall thinking that his parents should tell the other parents it would only happen if their son attended a 'diversity training session (or whatever the Australian equivalent is) to get rid of his homophobia - or at least learn to keep his mouth shut.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[Ken84050]

As to Liam covering any medical expenses for the guy he hit, I can recall thinking that his parents should tell the other parents it would only happen if their son attended a 'diversity training session (or whatever the Australian equivalent is) to get rid of his homophobia - or at least learn to keep his mouth shut.

 

      That's not realistic.   Remember Doug's description of the other boy's injuries in Chapter 34:

 

".... he had broken the guy’s nose, cracked one of his ribs, and fractured his cheek bone. We’re still not sure if the police are going to get involved.”

 

      Now put yourself in the position of that boy's parents.   With their son so smashed up, they would be in no mood to be preached at.   The boy's homophobia may be addressed by another person at another time, but not by anyone connected with Liam.   Bruce Bellweather would have needed to be very humble and conciliatory, definitely not on the moral high ground.

 

      Liam's violent temper is a serious problem.   However, he is wooing a very gentle person, so I'm hoping that in the long run Neil's influence may be able to tame him.

 

      This discussion is another tribute to Graeme.   Not every author can get his readers debating social issues.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Ken84050

[Timothy M.]

On 4/25/2015 at 9:09 PM, Ken84050 said:

      That's not realistic.   Remember Doug's description of the other boy's injuries in Chapter 34:

      Now put yourself in the position of that boy's parents.   With their son so smashed up, they would be in no mood to be preached at.   The boy's homophobia may be addressed by another person at another time, but not by anyone connected with Liam.   Bruce Bellweather would have needed to be very humble and conciliatory, definitely not on the moral high ground.

      Liam's violent temper is a serious problem.   However, he is wooing a very gentle person, so I'm hoping that in the long run Neil's influence may be able to tame him.

      This discussion is another tribute to Graeme.   Not every author can get his readers debating social issues.

That's a good point Ken, I'd almost forgotten how badly he was hurt.

And I do agree Bruce also had a point when he said nothing excused violence on that scale.

But on the other hand, I wonder if he realizes how violating homophobic slurs can be, particularly to a teenager who has only recently come out. Liam fights back the only way he knows how - and his reaction has a lot to so with his need to prove himself a 'man' due to the stupid stereotyping by society. Plus with the influence by Doug, who really is something of a thug, if you recall the way he dealt with the boys harassing Neil after he was on TV.

Liam needs his parents to say he should not have to accept the name-calling in the same breath they tell him violence can make things worse. Although I bet no one would have thought much of it, if he had hit him once. But trying to hold his anger in and ignore the taunts only made him lose his temper even more.

And Neil actually defended Liam's actions in school !!

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[Timothy M.]

I forgot I wanted to expand on the potential Deon / Clarissa relationship. After the party, I think it's more likely, assuming they get to see each other regularly. Which can easily happen if Sam and Mark move to Melbourne and Neil stays with them. (To me the logical solution to Neil not wanting to lose his friends and Liam.)

Anyway, I think Deon would do well with someone like Clarissa who does not immediately peg him as boyfriend material, and who has her own interests and friends and does not need a boyfriend to prop her up, We know from the talk she had with Neil that she was on quite equal terms with Liam when they dated, and I can't see her investing all her time in Deon, nor demand he gives her priority over football.

I think she is the kind of girl who wants to be friends first, and she can talk rationally about how to make compromises. Also she likes to take charge but in good way, by working out what she can do to help. She would probably devise ways to do things for Deon, which would help him in his career and at the same time enable her to spend time with him, even if his focus was not on her directly at the time. Eg helping out in the Club and organizing his gear and going to his matches and stuff like that. I can see her, Karen, Helena, Stacey, and Deon's sister having a blast together while they watch their boyfriends play.

I'm not fond of girls/women who define themselves and their own worth via their boyfriend/husband/partner and expect this relationship to fulfill most of their purpose in life. It's cloying for the man and demeaning for the woman, who should find worth in herself based on what she can do or who she is as a person. People who need the attention and approval of others all the time in order to feel they exist are a sad mystery to me.

Karen, Helena and Clarissa are good role models - and obvious contrasts to Ty's mum, Neil's mum and a few examples from other stories I've read recently. Plus there are plenty of examples from real life where women insist on husband and wife doing everything together or spending as much time as possible together (preferably talking   ) and resent their men having separate interests like sports or just hanging out with friends occasionally.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[Ken84050]

      Here's something completely different.   Liam wants to be close to both Doug and Neil, who despise each other.   Liam handles this wisely.   He has been completely frank with Doug about his feelings for Neil since they began.   Now in Chapter 38 he is completely frank with Neil about Doug.

 

Neil stiffened. “Doug?”

Liam chuckled. “Yes, Doug. He doesn’t want me to go out with you, but despite that he’s been helping me whenever I’ve asked. He’s the one who came up with that particular idea. He’s also the one who found a way for me to slip off to your party. He’s the one who sat on Rod to make sure he didn’t say anything after we found out you’re gay and told Helena to stay quiet so you wouldn’t stress out. He’s my best friend, and he’s never stopped showing it.”

Neil scowled. “I hate him.”

“He doesn’t like you, either, but that hasn’t stopped him from helping me.” Liam smiled. “He keeps putting my feelings ahead of his own. Eventually, I hope he’ll see past Four-Dork to the real Neil, but I’m not holding my breath.”

“You never mentioned any of this in those emails you sent me.” Neil’s tone had a suspicious edge.

“Because those emails were about us, not him.” Liam closed his eyes for a moment. “Doug’s been pushed aside in my priority list and replaced by you. Despite that, he’s not jealous.” Liam chuckled as he smiled at Neil. “He’s disappointed, but only because he thinks I can do better. I politely disagree.”

 

      Such candour is surely the right way to win Neil's trust.   There's a lot of honesty in Liam, despite his lying to his parents.

Edited April 27, 2015 by Ken84050

[Timothy M.]

On 4/26/2015 at 4:34 AM, Ken84050 said:

      Here's something completely different..   Liam wants to be close to both Doug and Neil, who despise each other.   Liam handles this wisely.   He has been completely frank with Doug about his feelings for Neil since they began.   Now in Chapter 38 he is completely frank with Neil about Doug.

      Such candour is surely the right way to win Neil's trust.   There's a lot of honesty in Liam, despite his lying to his parents.

  (I like this)

I had the same thought, and I'm not sure Liam will be able to reconcile those two. On the other hand, who would have thought he'd ever get Neil to go out with him. And it would be good for Doug to admit he was wrong and to apologize to Neil. I guess it would be good for Neil too, even if he may never quite forgive Doug.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[Timothy M.]

Quote

I also hope Dad's training session will be a success, although I fear it is either a gay-friendly publicity stunt, or a way of secretly scouting the Brat. No epic blow up this time, with a Dad to curb the Brat.  

Well, we know it's to scout Ty, but their plan may backfire, if he finds out. Remember on of the last sentences in ch 16:

Peter believed that if it came down to a choice between joining the AFL and supporting Jim, Ty would stand by Dad.

Quote

I'm really looking forward to reading about that training for Jim/Ty and how long it will take one of the pro-clubs to figure out who Ty really is and actually approach him and not his father...

This pro-club (Carlton) has already figured it out.

and they are hoping to keep it a secret. so far events have worked to their advantage.

Quote

Looking forward to the Carlton training! *fingers crossed for a positive outcome* (Not that it'll do any good. Haha!)

Seems like most of your readers are looking forward to this event. I know I am. Any hints about how many chapters before this?

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[Graeme]

Seems like most of your readers are looking forward to this event. I know I am. Any hints about how many chapters before this?

 

I hate giving out spoilers (though I'll confess I've accidentally done so at least once so far), but I think it's okay to say it won't be long. Certainly sometime this year....

[impunity]

I hate giving out spoilers (though I'll confess I've accidentally done so at least once so far), but I think it's okay to say it won't be long. Certainly sometime this year....

 

 I expect you could get 7 or 8 chapters out of the next week, if you wanted.

 

  Reply from Graeme (author)

I didn't come up with the nickname -- Doug did! It's a contraction of 'Four-Eyed Dork' from the short period of time that Neil wore glasses instead of contact lenses.

 

Paul is equal-third largest Leopard. He's 195cm/6'5" and 94kg/207lb. That's from the dramatis personae from Leopard Skin Cover. The two bigger guys are Zach at 200cm/6'7" and Roger at 196cm/6'5". Jai is the other equal third, also at 195cm.

 

Oh, that was sneaky!

 

I should read that dramatis personae more often; it contains a wealth of information. I went back and looked at chapter 27 where Zach acts as "security" during the Rosewoods' first visit. You mentioned there that he was the tallest.

Edited April 26, 2015 by impunity

[Ken84050]

Or perhaps Sam and Marcus will move to Melbourne now that Deon and Sam are getting on really well ?

After all Sam wants to be with all his three kids ....

 

      That makes very good sense.   Speaking about Sam, in Chapter 7 Marcus said:

 

".... Mandy didn’t want to see him afterwards and didn’t want the kids to see him, either. To give her the best chance of moving on, he moved to Sydney to be with me. I’d been prepared to move down here to be with him, but he thought it was best to do what she wanted and stay away. Moving to Sydney seemed like the best solution at the time...."

 

      But Melbourne now seems a much better option;  if Marcus is still willing to move there, and if they can both find suitable jobs there.   Then Neil and Liam could easily aim for the same university, and Deon could continue rebuilding the bond with his father.   What if he also builds a bond with Clarissa?   What if he is also drafted into an AFL club?   Go, Deon!    

Edited April 27, 2015 by Ken84050

[Timothy M.]

OK so it's less than 24 hours before we hopefully get answers to a few burning questions:

Will Liam and Neil keep their dating a secret at school ? This is assuming they remembered to ask Clarissa, Mary and the others to keep quiet about what happened at the party. Liam will tell Doug, of course, but I bet he wants Liam to keep it a secret.

If they do spend time together at school, since Liam is still unfairly grounded, and are open about dating, how will the other students react? I'm looking forward to a few Clarissa outbursts as she tells people to mind their own business.

Will Liam's parents let Neil visit him - and how soon do they relent and let them go out on a date?

(I recently went back and started to read the story from the beginning, and I cannot believe how much my opinion of Neil has changed. He was a creepy stalker, but when we got to know him and how desperate he was, it helped, but so did the fact he stopped trying to latch on to Jim, of course.)

How will Dave cope with his envy of Jim going to an AFL club for a training session  - or rather with his own worries about him never becoming elegible due to his issues?

Surely Dave is not the only one to be envious? What wil Peter and the other coaches do to deal with this? I'm sure they have a way to make it an advantage by pointing out it's important to be pleased on behalf or your team mates and also that it may benefit all players due to more attention from other AFL Clubs.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[impunity]

I cannot believe how much my opinion of Neil has changed. He was a creepy stalker, but when we got to know him and how desperate he was, it helped, but so did the fact he stopped trying to latch on to Jim, of course.

My thoughts exactly!

[Ken84050]

.... I cannot believe how much my opinion of Neil has changed. He was a creepy stalker ....

 

      I don't agree with "creepy stalker".   Tony seemed pretty perceptive in Chapter 35:

 

“As you said, you’re confused. You didn’t want Jim. You wanted someone, anyone, who could get you out of your home. Jim was just the person you picked.”

Edited May 1, 2015 by Ken84050

[Timothy M.]

On 5/1/2015 at 11:01 PM, Ken84050 said:

I don't agree with "creepy stalker". 

Graeme did:

Quote

Reply from Graeme (author)

Neil is just a poor, misunderstand, stalkerish, obsessive, paranoid, oppressed teenager. Nothing to worry about....

although I admit he was probably being slightly sarcastic here

off to bed so I can wake up at 6am for the next installment of Leopard Spots.

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[impunity]

Oh, there was definitely stalkerishness. Fortunately, he found another outlet in a relatively normal social life.

Edited May 1, 2015 by impunity

[Timothy M.]

I have a couple of questions:

Did Clarissa and Neil end up agreeing she should talk to Liam about controlling Doug? If so, can we please be present at both talks (Liam/Clarissa and Liam/Doug) or at least the last one. I like seeing Liam giving Doug a hard time.

Did Neil use his new phone to call his parents? Does he trust them enough to have his number? I assume they agreed to meet him, since otherwise the meeting with Liam's parents would be kind of unneccessary.   I think it is a good idea for Liam's dad to go with them.

Oh and on my third read this made me laugh: Liam’s jaw dropped open.

How the fuck did he do that ??   (Normally your mouth falls open or your jaw drops, right?)

Edited July 24, 2019 by Timothy M.

[Graeme]

I have a couple of questions:

 

Did Clarissa and Neil end up agreeing she should talk to Liam about controlling Doug? If so, can we please be present at both talks (Liam/Clarissa and Liam/Doug) or at least the last one. I like seeing Liam giving Doug a hard time.

It's not explicitly stated in the story. You'll have to wait to see if you get what you want

 

Did Neil use his new phone to call his parents? Does he trust them enough to have his number? I assume they agreed to meet him, since otherwise the meeting with Liam's parents would be kind of unneccessary.   I think it is a good idea for Liam's dad to go with them.

I think it's fair to say he probably trusts them enough, but he's more likely to have used the house phone or Todd's phone, just in case he's wrong.

 

Oh and on my third read this made me laugh: Liam’s jaw dropped open.

How the fuck did he do that ??   (Normally your mouth falls open or your jaw drops, right?)

Liam's a very talented person. That's all I'll say...