Thaw And Frost By Puppilull

[Puppilull]

Two fairly large guys... That would require some ingenuity...

[JohnAR]

Two fairly large guys... That would require some ingenuity...

 

 

Only with linear heterosexual approaches 

[Puppilull]

Only with linear heterosexual approaches 

 

They need some privacy. At least Joel... So confined space it is. 

 

But by all means, enlighten a poor vanilla girl. Pointers are most welcome!

[JohnAR]

I think we move that conversation to another venue ;-)

[Puppilull]

But we never do! I need to know! How else will I further my knowledge and grow as an author...? Nay, as a human? 

 

I think we move that conversation to another venue ;-)

[Timothy M.]

ooh the dreaded 'meet the family' moment 

I hope Lucas will reward Joel for being patient and polite.

[Timothy M.]

I should have brought up the suitcase matter here instead, where we can have a proper discussion. So let me quote:

 

Why did they have so many suitcases? Lucas didn't bring much the first time he went to Sweden and it's hard to believe he bought or brought lots of clothes when he has plenty in his apartment. Nor can I really see Joel having a lot of clothes to take with him, since he spent most of his time in uniform, playing hockey or running. But perhaps they brought gifts for Lucas' family?

 

Puppilul's answer: As for the bags...I hadn't really thought about that, other than being away for so long during the cold months would lead to a lot of luggage. Winter coats and such. I tone down the number though, since it's not a factor in the story and I don't want readers to sit and wonder about that.

 

Geemeedee's comment: The suitcases made sense to me, because the plan is to stay about six months. When Lucas left NYC, he was in a panic and just grabbed some stuff and ran.

 

I'm sure Lucas needs nice clothes and shoes for his stay, my question is why would he bring them from Sweden? Did he get all his US clothes shipped over during the summer? Why would he have all his suits and shirts used at work sent to Sweden, where he has nothing to use them for there?

I guess two winter coats and boots would fill one suitcase alone. But will Lucas really use the stuff bought in Sweden? It's more warm than trendy, lol.

And wouldn't he want Joel to buy some nice clothes in NY rather than bring them from Sweden? I have all these images in my head of Lucas dragging Joel around and making him try on clothes with the sales assistants drooling over the blond hunk.  not to mention some nice underwear...

Edited April 28, 2016 by Timothy M.

[Puppilull]

I wouldn't imagine Lucas shipping things from the US, but he did have a lot of time to pass having virtually nothing to do. Shopping could pass the time, leaving him with a substantial wardrobe. I don't know... As for winter gear, he could want it for sentimental reasons? When those kinds of clothes are required in New York, I think style is out of the question anyway.

 

As for Joel, he's not used to traveling and possibly suffers from 'I'd better bring it just in case'-syndrome, forgetting they are going to NY and not Svalbard. This always leads to massive over packing and lots of luggage. 

[Timothy M.]

I'm glad they had a nice weekend together before reality hits. I'm not surprised Joel felt uncomfortable about the way Pierce and Lucas were acting. I doubt Lucas would even consider cheating on Joel, but because of his long friendship with Pierce including the Christmas hook-up, Lucas will probably tolerate the guy touching him in ways which will inflame Joel's jealousy and insecurity. Luckily / hopefully Joel won't go there from now on - although maybe he'll come and pick Lucas up? And Pierce obviously thinks Joel isn't going to be a permanent partner. It was worrying that Lucas didn't call him on that immediately.

It was interesting to see Lucas change his behavior the way Joel noted. He is obviously a social chaemelion, used to adapting to people he's with. It's probably the reason he is so popular and gets on with everybody. I don't find anything wrong with this, because Lucas isn't doing it to deceive people, it's instinctive to fit in and make them comfortable. But it must be confusing for Joel who is always the same man in every situation. Solid, dependable, shy and very much focused on Lucas.

[Puppilull]

As usual, Tim, you're very much on point. I'm glad you don't just discard Lucas as a douche, because he really isn't one. Immature and not used to havinget a serious relationship, yes. Mean or deceitful, no.

 

I find that people very often have many personalities and change due to setting. Lucas lived a very different life in New York before running off and meeting Joel. He's tried to be open about it, but probably doesn't realise just how Joel is feeling right now. And Joel being Joel means no immediate demands for a 'talk'.

[glitteryantlers]

Ok, I thought Lucas is somehow off balance. How could he be a succesful lawyer, earning a lot of money, when he acts impulsive out of fear? He seemed a nice one, but in my opinion he was lacking something. Now I see him in his natural element, where he is (kind of? not because he is trying to hurt Joel, but nonetheless) a jerk. Like a lawyer is suppposed to be :-P (No offense Puppilul, I hope, you know what I mean. Being a shark among sharks.)

 

I'm looking forward to see, what Joel will do. I somehow don't see him back off and let his lover be a jerk to him on a daily basis.

[Puppilull]

I think you have to reevaluate your view on lawyers. LOL We are sometimes sharks in our profession, but faced with a threat to our lives I think many would react with a primal fear.

 

And Lucas can be very tough in his work and is proud of what he does, but he's still young. Right now, he's swamped by the most important case in his career and he sooo wants to do the best he can. The stress has its drawbacks, one bring his inability to be a good partner to Joel right now. Also, he unconsciously slipped back into his old persona upon returning to New York.

 

Add to that Joel's problems with speaking his mind and you have unfortunate circumstances converging to create some issues.

[glitteryantlers]

Ouch, Joel the housewife. It made me so sad, he had to explore the city on his own. Again, he is slipping into his old behaviour too, not saying, quietly suffering. Wanting kids, not wanting to disturb Lucas in his important matters, at least the sex is good .    Also I can understand Lucas too: Don't we all want a Viking as housewife/stay at home husband/whatever? 

[Puppilull]

When another big part of your life spins out of control, your focus can shift and not in a good way. Since Joel is quiet, perhaps Lucas is mostly relieved he doesn't have to deal with that too?

[LitLover]

Ok, I thought Lucas is somehow off balance. How could he be a succesful lawyer, earning a lot of money, when he acts impulsive out of fear? He seemed a nice one, but in my opinion he was lacking something. Now I see him in his natural element, where he is (kind of? not because he is trying to hurt Joel, but nonetheless) a jerk. Like a lawyer is suppposed to be :-P (No offense Puppilul, I hope, you know what I mean. Being a shark among sharks.)

 

I'm looking forward to see, what Joel will do. I somehow don't see him back off and let his lover be a jerk to him on a daily basis.

 

Joel really, really needs to communicate with Lucas or their relationship will die because Joel will eventually withdraw and pull away to protect himself.  Lucas is being obtuse, and kind of a jerk, but he needs to be given the opportunity to rectify things, and to be told his behaviour is bothering his boyfriend.  He can't fix what he doesn't know is  problem, right?

[Puppilull]

I just want to say I'm so grateful for all the insightful comments I've got for Frost so far. For a newbie writer like me, it's gold to get reactions. You guys give me a lot to think about. So thank you!

 

(Thanks Tim for the suggestion to have it in here and not just an update.)

[Timothy M.]

I just want to say I'm so grateful for all the insightful comments I've got for Frost so far. For a newbie writer like me, it's gold to get reactions. You guys give me a lot to think about. So thank you!

 

such a polite Swedish way of saying all the ranting about Lucas was quite unexpected.

 

I wasn't surprised at the way Lucas is acting, and at least it's not out of malice, but ignorance and thoughtlessness and inexperience. I think he'll be very upset once he realizes how Joel is feeling.

[glitteryantlers]

Ouch, Joel the housewife. It made me so sad, he had to explore the city on his own. Again, he is slipping into his old behaviour too, not saying, quietly suffering. Wanting kids, not wanting to disturb Lucas in his important matters, at least the sex is good .    Also I can understand Lucas too: Don't we all want a Viking as housewife/stay at home husband/whatever? 

Things are not getting better.

 

What would Lucas say, when Joel would go for lunch with someone? Maybe not with this Adam guy, but someone nice and less stereotypical. I bet, he would be jealous. But as things are now, he wouldn't even notice it. And Joel does not say anything.

 

I'm so looking forward to the next chapter, I think things are going to turn worst before they can turn better.

 

Again, the picture of Thor acting as a housewife is somehow hot. People thinking Joel slow and dim because of his size and because English is a foreign language for him makes me want to hit someone. Really. Joel needs to speak, Lucas to look around and out of his precious case.

[Timothy M.]

He, he, Puppillul, you certainly ruffled some feathers with this chapter. Not as bad as Mann in I&C, but you may want to start looking out for pitchforks if the guys don't get their heads out of their asses soon. Even Joel is getting ranted at !

[Puppilull]

Things are not getting better.

 

What would Lucas say, when Joel would go for lunch with someone? Maybe not with this Adam guy, but someone nice and less stereotypical. I bet, he would be jealous. But as things are now, he wouldn't even notice it. And Joel does not say anything.

 

I'm so looking forward to the next chapter, I think things are going to turn worst before they can turn better.

 

Again, the picture of Thor acting as a housewife is somehow hot. People thinking Joel slow and dim because of his size and because English is a foreign language for him makes me want to hit someone. Really. Joel needs to speak, Lucas to look around and out of his precious case.

 

They are in a kind of downward spiral. Where they will land? Who knows... They are both part of the problem as I see it, for varying reasons and to a varying degree.  

 

And don't be too hard on Adam. He acted a little silly, but he was in flirtmode and aren't we all all little silly then? Doing what we think the object of our affections want to see? He's just assuming things about Joel that aren't correct. 

[Puppilull]

He, he, Puppillul, you certainly ruffled some feathers with this chapter. Not as bad as Mann in I&C, but you may want to start looking out for pitchforks if the guys don't get their heads out of their asses soon. Even Joel is getting ranted at !

 

He, he... I think I would hid for a month if I created a stir as the latest I&C. 

 

I had to get Saint Joel pulled down a peg or two and also show Lucas isn't a complete mondo douche (Thanks Fantasyboy69 for teaching me that one!). They are both in this mess together and neither is without blame. I'm glad people are responding so much, because to me that means I've managed to write characters people care about in some way and who also human. We all do stupid things in a relationship. We're only human, after all... 

[Puppilull]

Strangely enough I haven't heard much Thaw/Frost music, but this morning I heard this. Seems to fit chapter 8.

 

[Timothy M.]

LOL spikey is so upset with Lucas he called Joel Lucas twice in his ranting review (The part starting with Lucas's main problem is, once they got to New York, work, family, friends were his main priority with his relationship coming in dead last.)

 

But I agree with everything he said, particularly the dad thing.

[Puppilull]

I'm amazed at the passion in the reviews I'm getting. So interesting to see how my readers react! 

 

I think I may have counted on people knowing more about lawyers than they actually do... LOL Stephen is so very proud of his lawyer son, following in their footsteps, that he has a hard time accepting Lucas might not want the same thing. Besides, with Lucas' history it's not really a wonder that they are a bit skeptical about thinking he's found true love. Lucas was a bit of a player... So to see him potentially give up his career for some guy is diffiult.  

[LitLover]

It's a testament to your writing that your characters can elicit these strong reactions.  For me, I really care about Joel (even if he is fictional) and I ache for him, seeing how lonely he is.  At the same time I want to smack him and tell him Lucas doesn't have ESP and he needs to tell the man how he is feeling.  I also want to smack Lucas... hard... he doesn't have time for a leisurely dinner with his boyfriend that he's seeing very little of, but he can be at his parent's house for dinner???  Ok rant over.