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I disagree with letting the kids decide what they want to eat, because they need a certain amount of nutrition to be healthy.

 

I wasn't suggesting kids should decide in general what they want to eat. I was saying they should be allowed to decline specific food which disgusted them and be offered a healthy (and boring) alternative.

I have friends who have praticed this principle, and their kids have always eaten amazingly well by their own choice - even stuff like broccoli and fish. :o

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I wasn't suggesting kids should decide in general what they want to eat. I was saying they should be allowed to decline specific food which disgusted them and be offered a healthy (and boring) alternative.

I have friends who have praticed this principle, and their kids have always eaten amazingly well by their own choice - even stuff like broccoli and fish. :o

Fair enough. The problem is that Alan and Peter won't have a good idea of what the boys will eat yet. They need to find out somehow. They'll probably know one or two meals, but they're still learning the fine detail of what the boys like and dislike.

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…say no to food they don't want to try…

 

As a child, I didn't experience any trauma anywhere remotely like losing a parent. But I was (and am) incredibly stubborn about some things. I was (and am) incredibly picky about food. I would take the punishment rather than eat certain vegetables. My parents gave up on anything more than nagging me to eat squash, zucchini, onions, eggplant, or other things I hate. I would pick out and push to the side all the onions – and my mother loved onions, so she'd put lots of them in everything!

 

I grew up eating a lot of fish (my parents had friends who would give it to them free) and at one point decided I was never going to eat fish again. My mother caved and would buy and prepare something different just for me when she made fish for dinner. She wasn't an indulgent mother by any means, but she knew I wasn't going to back down and it wasn't worth the fights.

 

 

Picky eaters tend to be thinner than those who eat everything served to them.

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Fair enough. The problem is that Alan and Peter won't have a good idea of what the boys will eat yet. They need to find out somehow. They'll probably know one or two meals, but they're still learning the fine detail of what the boys like and dislike.

 

But even if they make something they think the boys will like, you said in your reply:

 

What I would prefer is a second meal being cooked (more work for the parent in charge of cooking) that they know the boys will eat. They still don't get a choice about eating it, but it's a compromise in that they've previously indicated that it'll be food that they will eat.

 

Why don't they get a choice? Why do parents think it's OK to make kids eat food and 'finish what's on your plate.' No adults would tolerate anyone doing it to them.

 

Forcing a child to eat more when his body says enough will fuck up his sense of when to stop eating - and that goes for babies too. If your ability to feel when you're replete (full from eating) gets destroyed, your risk of obesity increases. I saw one study saying that the obesity rate in the USA started going up due to the combination of the restaurant marketing trick of 'eat all you can' combined with the moral lesson of 'finish what's on you plate.' If you pay to eat all you can, you will keep eating in order to feel that you have gotten a good deal - most people will keep eating after they're no longer hungry. In Denmark we say: Maven bliver fuld før øjnene meaning your stomach will be full before your eyes are, i.e. you crave more of what food you see than your body needs. If you give in to that - and are even tempted to do so by fast food chains, obesity happens.

 

Kids should be allowed to say no thanks to food - provided they don't have access to unhealthy stuff (sweets, snacks, fast food) to fill them instead. They should be offered vegetable snacks (like cucumber or carrot sticks), water or milk, or like you said an alternative to the adult food they dislike. But they should never be forced to eat anything. Simply tell them it's OK to not be hungry, and the food will be in the fridge if they chance their minds. If they get to say they're hungry and would like to try the food, it's a win-win situation. They win, you win.

 

Oh, and all of the above isn't my idea but comes from a Danish child psychologist who wrote a book called Your Competent Child telling parents how to give kids real choices. Like: you have to wear warm clothes, because it's cold outside, but you can chose which color sweater you want today. or You get to chose whether you want to eat, but these are the healthy choices you can have, when you're hungry.

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You have to eat everything that's on your plate because there are starving children in _________. (It used to be China, but Africa is always a logical alternative.)  ;-)

 

But that's a logical fallacy since eating everything would never magically feed a starving child elsewhere.

 

 

Part of the problem is that many parents serve too much food to their children in the first place. Not all kids are stubborn enough to go to bed hungry to avoid eating something they hated (and were possibly allergic to). In some cases there is the risk of physical danger in opposing a parent.

 

 

On the other hand, my ex grew up in a family of five boys and one girl (the youngest four being two sets of fraternal twins including the girl). He always seemed to inhale his food because whoever grabbed it first got it and you didn't want to waste any time or you'd starve.

 

In my family, my mother controlled how much you food you took. If there was one more pork chop left, for example, you would be allowed to have part of it, but not the whole thing. Mom would tell you how much. Of course, if it was something like spaghetti, you could get seconds as long as you ate it all.

 

 

My mother used to tell us she was cold so we should go put a sweater on! (As a child, we had moved from Hawaii to what seemed to us to be frigid temperatures in San Diego! I'm sure most of you would think those same temperatures were balmy for wintertime.)

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I liked the addition of Steve and Keidan. They were a hoot, and seem like good support to have around. The request to speak to Daddy tore me up... it was a harsh reminder they'd be growing up without their dad. I find this a roller-coaster of a story for the emotions, and it's achieved with simple human drama. Kudos, Graeme...

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I have to admit I'm finding it difficult to review this story, probably because I can't relate to any of the characters. I'll still read it, and I may leave the occasional review if something catches my interest. It's a good story with lots of quiet drama, but not really my cup of tea. :no: Sorry.  

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I am going out on a limb here. I seem to remember you saying that you started this story a number of years ago. The initial writing style seemed a little more stilted than your other recent works. As the story progresses i am finding your usual rhythm in the character development and layering coming through. The chapters are laying building blocks for conflict or resolution later down the road and the story is taking flight for me. This is a difficult and nuanced topic that you are tackling with the focus on the family dynamics and the gay issues is a more supporting role. 

 

As always thanks for the journey. I always look forward to Saturday mornings and my weekly dose of drama.

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You're not out on a limb at all. Yes, I started writing this story when my boys were just a little older than Troy and Bradley. They're now both in high school. :D I did go through and tweak each of the chapters, but the majority was left untouched. It'll be interesting, though, if you can pick when I recently restarted writing the story. :)

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I'm liking the story, and I do relate because of my own kids. I too find it layered, and there are human moments I find appealing. To me, while I love all kinds of genres and stories, sometimes human, family drama is what I crave... that's my two cents worth :)

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  • 1 month later...

Just finished chapter 11. It feels like we are heading into more recent writing now. The story has really found its rhythm as new themes are introduced gradually. I love how you capture the learning curve of the two men as they continue their crash course in parenting. Rosalie's wisdom is lovely too. This is a harder topic than say the Leopard series where sports and developing relationships counterpoint the issues of homophobia and acceptance. Here the men are sometimes assaulted on all sides. 

 

Thank you for another  eager awaited instalment.

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  • 4 weeks later...

I love the story but I have a problem with how Lisa is being treated. I respect that people would want to protect someone in her position from stress but as a parent, unless I was in a coma I would be furious if such serious decisions were being made about my child without consulting me. Lisa is conscious and lucid and deserves to be on the loop. I also do not think a court would entertain such a case without her input. ok rant over

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It's a delicate balance and Alan should talk with her doctors before he decides. But I think it could rouse her out of the despondent mood if she was able to take positive action in the well-fare of her children. Or in other words tell her mother-in-law to shelve the bigoted attitude and get into the 21st century (or is it the 20th ? :lol: ).

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About that ending. The teacher has a lot to answer for releasing Troy to the care of his grandparents when there was no legal grounds to do so. It may be different in Australia, but when I took my little cousin from his daycare to see a movie, his mom called and let the teacher know that would be happening and even then, I had to show my ID (P knew me and excitedly greeted me) to the teacher before they would release him into my care.

 

Are the grandparents on the emergency call list? Even if they are, I still don't think that would give them the legal right to swoop in and make off with their grandson like that. They must be permission for such things! 

 

Okay, end of rant. So, when is the next chapter? Can't wait to see these two carted off to jail for kidnapping. And, as has already been mentioned, get Lisa in the loop, she needs to know what is going on. 

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If they have picked up Troy like that in the past, it would be difficult for the teacher to question it. However, why didn't she wonder about Troy not having an overnight bag with him? But we have to remember the school does not know about the custody battle. If Troy decides to back up his grandparents and say Peter forgot because they were late, it's hard to blame her. And after all they care about the boy, so he'll be fine. 

What I'm hoping is for Troy to be in a foul mood and to run them ragged with demands and questions. That should teach them the folly of having the boys staying with them permanently. 

Poor Alan, he's strung high enough as it is. and he can't even have a break-down because he doesn't want to scare Bradley - who may decide to complain about not going with Troy. :facepalm:

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What I'm hoping is for Troy to be in a foul mood and to run them ragged with demands and questions. That should teach them the folly of having the boys staying with them permanently. 

 

:rofl:   Oh, that would be grand! 

Edited by Reader1810
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