The Caf

[C James]

The Caf

[Graeme]

One of the many things I loved about this story was a glimpse into another culture, all while entertaining us with an interesting story.

 

I'm not absolutely sure, but this story appears to be set in the Kurdish part of Turkey. Both Mahmoud and his sister find that their love has been declared by their culture to be wrong -- haraam, but each is defiant, in their own way.

 

I had to be amused by Mahmoud's reaction to his sister -- his thoughts kept thinking he should try to be gentle, but his words came straight from his father. And all the time knowing that what he was doing was, in their parents eyes, worse than what she was doing. I wonder what his sister's reaction was, once she had a chance to learn about Jean.

 

Their struggles are only just beginning, but I'm glad that they have at least a chance of living with someone they desire.

[Libby Drew]

I really enjoyed this! What captivated me the most was how the modern facets of society (e.g. cell phones) were juxtaposed with such archaic (though obviously not obsolete) ideas. I was so happy to see Mahmoud return again and again to Jean, even though he knew the potential consequences for doing so. A story very true to the prompt. The hopeful ending was exactly what I needed this evening. Thank you for sharing this.

[C James]

I loved the story!

 

It seemed to be heading for a disaster, but Jean and his Grandmother saved the day.

 

I found myself fervently wishing that they 20 litre pot had been used in a slightly different way to get past the father; used to bash his barbaric head in.

 

Sadly, the backward and disgusting practices of unwilling arranged marriages and "honor killings" are all too common, even in our supposedly modern age. One of the reasons I loved this story was that it so skillfully illustrated the horror that it inflicts on its victims.

 

Well done!

CJ

[AFriendlyFace]

Amazing job, Procyon!

 

Again I felt like I really learned something from this entry and got to peer into a culture with which I wasn't familiar.

 

I loved the way you set up so many parallels between what was going on with Iman and Mahmoud!

 

What was genius was the way you were subtly making the connection between Jean's gran and Mahmoud's mother from the very beginning - with the similarity in the ways they cooked! It was very clever and well done! Even at the end with the old lady came to the door - and I assumed it had to be the grandmother - from the way she was asking after Mahmoud's mother I figured I must have been wrong!

 

Great job!

 

-Kevin

[Procyon]

Thank you all so much for your comments on my story; I'm really glad you enjoyed it.

 

I'm not absolutely sure, but this story appears to be set in the Kurdish part of Turkey. Both Mahmoud and his sister find that their love has been declared by their culture to be wrong -- haraam, but each is defiant, in their own way.

 

I deliberately didn't make it clear where this story was set, because I wanted people to be able to think it was where they lived, although there aren't that many Kurds in most countries so I suppose in many cases it wouldn't be possible for that reason anyway.

 

So yes, it could be Turkey, but when I wrote the story it was Sweden I had in mind. We have a very large Kurdish community here, and sadly there have also been a number of honour killings. The family's attitude isn't exaggerated either. I used to work as a teacher in a school with many Kurdish immigrants, and I encountered at least two girls who were treated like that -- there were other cases that weren't as bad, but bad enough, and there were probably girls who were treated like Iman but didn't tell anyone about it. It was from one of those girls that I first heard the word 'haraam' -- thanks, btw, for the link, Graeme! I considered giving one in the story itself, but somehow that seemed to lecture-ish.

 

I had to be amused by Mahmoud's reaction to his sister -- his thoughts kept thinking he should try to be gentle, but his words came straight from his father. And all the time knowing that what he was doing was, in their parents eyes, worse than what she was doing. I wonder what his sister's reaction was, once she had a chance to learn about Jean.

 

Their struggles are only just beginning, but I'm glad that they have at least a chance of living with someone they desire.

 

Yes, their struggle is definitely just beginning... The honour killing that got the most media attention in Sweden happened after the girl, Fadime Sahindal, had been hiding from her father for years, with a protected identity in another city. Then she couldn't stand it any longer and went home to see her mother, once.

 

And you're right, what Mahmoud says seems to come directly from his father's mouth -- but I think that he does it partly because he's worried about what'll happen to Iman if she doesn't 'behave'.

 

 

I really enjoyed this! What captivated me the most was how the modern facets of society (e.g. cell phones) were juxtaposed with such archaic (though obviously not obsolete) ideas. I was so happy to see Mahmoud return again and again to Jean, even though he knew the potential consequences for doing so. A story very true to the prompt. The hopeful ending was exactly what I needed this evening. Thank you for sharing this.

 

I'm glad you enjoyed the story, especially since I've enjoyed all the ones I've read by you very much.

 

 

I loved the story!

 

It seemed to be heading for a disaster, but Jean and his Grandmother saved the day.

 

I found myself fervently wishing that they 20 litre pot had been used in a slightly different way to get past the father; used to bash his barbaric head in.

 

Sadly, the backward and disgusting practices of unwilling arranged marriages and "honor killings" are all too common, even in our supposedly modern age. One of the reasons I loved this story was that it so skillfully illustrated the horror that it inflicts on its victims.

 

Well done!

CJ

 

Yeah, the father is still a threat. And arrranged marriages are very much a reality even among people who have emigrated to the west; they send their daughters back 'home' to get married and there isn't a lot the authorities can do about it, because even though underage marriage is against the law, there is no law to prevent people from sending their children to their home countries. Or to 'import' spouses for their children.

 

Anyway, one can always hope that there'll be no need for them to use the 20-litre pot to bash the father's head in. Maybe a less backward relative will show up and make him see sense, or else he'll just miss his children so much that he's prepared to forgive them... Not very likely, but yeah. There's more hope for the mother, I think.

 

Amazing job, Procyon!

 

Again I felt like I really learned something from this entry and got to peer into a culture with which I wasn't familiar.

 

I loved the way you set up so many parallels between what was going on with Iman and Mahmoud!

 

What was genius was the way you were subtly making the connection between Jean's gran and Mahmoud's mother from the very beginning - with the similarity in the ways they cooked! It was very clever and well done! Even at the end with the old lady came to the door - and I assumed it had to be the grandmother - from the way she was asking after Mahmoud's mother I figured I must have been wrong!

 

Great job!

 

-Kevin

 

Yeah, I had some trouble with getting them out of the fix they were in, so I'm glad it worked. She's quite some woman, Jean's granny, and I think she knows what Jean and Mahmoud mean to each other. Of course her first marriage was arranged, too, and it was only after her first husband (Jean's granddad) died that she married for love -- the fellow whose house she still lived in, on the island.

[corvus]

This is my first post on GA in two weeks, so of course Procyon is deeply honored I'm putting it here...

 

 

I really enjoyed this story. To put things in perspective, I betaed it 5 hrs before class, after having wandered through every street in east Berlin with very little sleep.... A story needs to be really good to keep me awake -- not just 'good' good, but damn enjoyable good, too. This story really was.

 

Others have pointed out the 'social' importance of the story, which is doubtlessly very important, but I'm going to give it a more artistic evaluation. This is one of those rare stories for which it's impossible to distinguish between plot and characterization. That's very difficult to achieve, and it's a tribute to Procyon's excellent pacing that these two elements turned out so well. The 'back stories,' which are often neglected, were developed to just the right degree and helped the movement of the story as a whole.

 

So, an excellent effort, all in all. If I were to change something, it'd be to tweak the sudden alleviation of tone and tension at the ending. I felt it happened too fast, but Shakespeare did that sort of thing, too, so -- who knows!

[C James]

I'm so glad that you decided to write about "honor" killings and the systematic abuse that often accompanies that mindset. This is a subject that gets far too little attention.

 

Women have to suffer this kind of abuse in many places, it's sadly far from rare. It's also by no means limited to the Kurds; they aren't even the most notorious practitioners of it.

 

In many cases, the abusive treatment seen for the daughter is the normal state of affairs in many Islamic countries; Women are treated as chattel, with few rights of their own. Saudi Arabia is one such place where women are routinely kept in such abusive isolation, for their entire lives. That, like "honor killings", is barbaric, and I'm saddened that there is not more outcry against it.

 

I have r-read your story, with an eye to the location. I think you made the right decision, you made it Western, but ambiguous. I think that is a perfect fit in this case. Very well done.

[AFriendlyFace]

I deliberately didn't make it clear where this story was set, because I wanted people to be able to think it was where they lived, although there aren't that many Kurds in most countries so I suppose in many cases it wouldn't be possible for that reason anyway.

 

So yes, it could be Turkey, but when I wrote the story it was Sweden I had in mind. We have a very large Kurdish community here, and sadly there have also been a number of honour killings. The family's attitude isn't exaggerated either. I used to work as a teacher in a school with many Kurdish immigrants, and I encountered at least two girls who were treated like that -- there were other cases that weren't as bad, but bad enough, and there were probably girls who were treated like Iman but didn't tell anyone about it. It was from one of those girls that I first heard the word 'haraam' -- thanks, btw, for the link, Graeme! I considered giving one in the story itself, but somehow that seemed to lecture-ish.

That is fascinating! I need to learn more about this!

 

Yes, their struggle is definitely just beginning... The honour killing that got the most media attention in Sweden happened after the girl, Fadime Sahindal, had been hiding from her father for years, with a protected identity in another city. Then she couldn't stand it any longer and went home to see her mother, once.

I shall have to check this out as well!

 

 

Anyway, one can always hope that there'll be no need for them to use the 20-litre pot to bash the father's head in. Maybe a less backward relative will show up and make him see sense, or else he'll just miss his children so much that he's prepared to forgive them... Not very likely, but yeah. There's more hope for the mother, I think.

I was indeed fascinated and curious about the mother! Is there more to the story? I mean will there be other installments?

 

 

This is my first post on GA in two weeks, so of course Procyon is deeply honored I'm putting it here...

And we've missed you!

 

 

Hope you've been well

 

Others have pointed out the 'social' importance of the story, which is doubtlessly very important, but I'm going to give it a more artistic evaluation. This is one of those rare stories for which it's impossible to distinguish between plot and characterization. That's very difficult to achieve, and it's a tribute to Procyon's excellent pacing that these two elements turned out so well. The 'back stories,' which are often neglected, were developed to just the right degree and helped the movement of the story as a whole.

I agree; that was very well done!

[Procyon]

This is my first post on GA in two weeks, so of course Procyon is deeply honored I'm putting it here...

 

 

I really enjoyed this story. To put things in perspective, I betaed it 5 hrs before class, after having wandered through every street in east Berlin with very little sleep.... A story needs to be really good to keep me awake -- not just 'good' good, but damn enjoyable good, too. This story really was.

 

Others have pointed out the 'social' importance of the story, which is doubtlessly very important, but I'm going to give it a more artistic evaluation. This is one of those rare stories for which it's impossible to distinguish between plot and characterization. That's very difficult to achieve, and it's a tribute to Procyon's excellent pacing that these two elements turned out so well. The 'back stories,' which are often neglected, were developed to just the right degree and helped the movement of the story as a whole.

 

Thanks

 

So, an excellent effort, all in all. If I were to change something, it'd be to tweak the sudden alleviation of tone and tension at the ending. I felt it happened too fast, but Shakespeare did that sort of thing, too, so -- who knows!

 

Yeah I agree, but I was in such a hurry!! It's true though, haha. (And sadly I didn't do it to be Shakespearian, though it'd be nice if I could claim that.)

 

 

I'm so glad that you decided to write about "honor" killings and the systematic abuse that often accompanies that mindset. This is a subject that gets far too little attention.

 

Women have to suffer this kind of abuse in many places, it's sadly far from rare. It's also by no means limited to the Kurds; they aren't even the most notorious practitioners of it.

 

In many cases, the abusive treatment seen for the daughter is the normal state of affairs in many Islamic countries; Women are treated as chattel, with few rights of their own. Saudi Arabia is one such place where women are routinely kept in such abusive isolation, for their entire lives. That, like "honor killings", is barbaric, and I'm saddened that there is not more outcry against it.

 

I have r-read your story, with an eye to the location. I think you made the right decision, you made it Western, but ambiguous. I think that is a perfect fit in this case. Very well done.

 

Yes that's true, we only see the Kurds here because there are so many of them abroad, we don't get as many people from other countries with similar or worse treatment of women (and gay men). There are horrible things happening in Pakistan too, for instance.

 

One of the things, or persons, that inspired me to write this story is a *cough* Syrian waiter at a caf

[corvus]

In many cases, the abusive treatment seen for the daughter is the normal state of affairs in many Islamic countries; Women are treated as chattel, with few rights of their own. Saudi Arabia is one such place where women are routinely kept in such abusive isolation, for their entire lives. That, like "honor killings", is barbaric, and I'm saddened that there is not more outcry against it.

 

I think one of the marvelous thing about this story is the depiction of Iman. Yes, she's a victim of the misogyny that's characteristic of many Islamic communities, but -- here's the important thing -- she doesn't let herself be the victim. Not only does she fight it with actions, such as continuing her relationship with her boyfriend, but she doesn't let herself have the mentality of a victim. That's even more crucial.

 

I think it's important to keep in mind what the "victims" are like and what they want whenever we think about mounting an "outcry" and "saving" them. I'm sure Iman would appreciate being given a chance to live in more liberated and "forward" society, but it's somewhat insulting to think of her solely as a "victim." Iman's mother, who is another "victim," probably wouldn't want any "help" at all!

[Cynical Romantic]

I just read this short story - a bit belatedly - and I was totally blown away. It was so well done, with amazing characterization and nuance. I also thought that the subtlety was well done; given the subject matter, it would have been all too easy to write a story that was blatantly preachy and full of clich

[Daisy]

I have to agree with everybody, it is a great story, and refreshing that its different.

 

It is tragic about the honour killings, there have been some high profile ones in the UK too.

 

The whole thing reminds me of the film East is East. Its simular, but not as tragic (if I remember correctly). its about a pakistani family in manchester in the 70's, its actually quite a good comedy, but educational too, very good insight into something different. it also has a gay character again if i remember properly.

 

here's a youtube link, I recomend watching it. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=32cmw9lpAiQ...feature=related

 

Anyway, good story, well written,

Celia

[corvus]

Iman came across as very courageous, not really worried about her own fate, but only wanting to text her boyfriend to let him know she didn't abandon him.

 

Haha... after having read "Men Who Hate Women," I've gained a new appreciation/perspective of Iman.

 

Excellent story - thank you for writing. Now I want to read more of your work.

 

You know what that means, "Maria." You need to write more. *cough cough*

 

The whole thing reminds me of the film East is East. Its simular, but not as tragic (if I remember correctly). its about a pakistani family in manchester in the 70's, its actually quite a good comedy, but educational too, very good insight into something different. it also has a gay character again if i remember properly.

 

That reminds me also of "My Beautiful Laundrette", which is a great film with Daniel Day-Lewis as one of the co-stars. Gay London punk, gay Pakistani son, and lots of detergent.

 

When I was in Strasbourg the other day, I got a d

[Procyon]

I just read this short story - a bit belatedly - and I was totally blown away. It was so well done, with amazing characterization and nuance. I also thought that the subtlety was well done; given the subject matter, it would have been all too easy to write a story that was blatantly preachy and full of clich

[Cynical Romantic]

And about Iman being courageous -- I hate to tell you this, but she was just maaaadly in love. She couldn't spend a second not thinking of her boyfriend, who, btw, was a rather possessive guy and not as nice as you might think. Iman will have to do something about that later I'm afraid...

 

Hmmm.. sequel?

[Procyon]

Hmmm.. sequel?

 

Yeah, there's a lot more to write, so that might happen.

[corvus]

One last thing -- did anyone at all listen to those songs I posted links to?? I bet NOBODY did....! But you all should, they're good. wink.gif

 

They *are* good. The one with the woman singer is better. You're right, they look so happy, as if they weren't being constrained by a misogynistic, hegemonic, backward code of conduct...

 

And uh, Men Who Hate Women made you think of Iman...? Harhar, how? Apart from the fact that her father was one of those men, of course. Very interesting.

 

Well, that's all that's necessary, harhar. And it takes place in Sweden, with Swedish people, you know.

 

Too, I was struck by the parallels between Iman and Mahmoud, and the fact that for Iman - a straight woman - having a boyfriend was essentially a death sentence, while Mahmoud's sentence for being gay and getting caught with a man was not death but marriage - not exactly a good fate for a gay man, but a definite step up from death.

 

This is a very interesting point that I hadn't picked up on. It seems to me that homosexuality is something so "out-there" that the Islamic culture doesn't even know how to deal with it. On the other hand, I did read a NYTimes article which suggested that lesbian relations between women before marriage wasn't a very uncommon thing.

 

I kind of (a little) feel sorry for Iman and Mahmoud's parents. I wonder what they're going to tell their neighbors and relatives, haha...