California Culture: Circa 2000

Daisy139 · July 13, 2011

It'd be funny for Mark to write the ways in which JJ tries to elude the crazy fans that want to know more about him and his family. I imagine he'll start taking to wearing oversized Louis Vuitton sunglasses whenever he shows up to big famly functions.

And in the winter, a hooded furcoat. Very inconspicuous

Yeah, the orphan was Oksana Baiul. A lot of skaters have heartbreaking stories like that and often those are just half the truth.

That picture looks perfect for an official website. Maybe they could photoshop a necklace with a cross in, because of course what got JJ through this hard orphan life and gave him the strength to become a dedicated figure skater...is of course his faith.

methodwriter85 · July 14, 2011

God, I could just see Brad watching JJ's interview where he refers to him as "Uncle", and talks about how Christian faith got him through the horrors of being raised without loving parents. Brad's knuckles would likely be gripping the arms of his lazy boy, white as day.

Glad you like Lucas Till. I'd been looking for two years for a JJ, and Mark turned down each one. Then a mutual online friend mentioned having a crush on Lucas Till, the guy from the new XMen movie, and I thought, "Wow, this guy would make a great JJ." Mark ran with it. You have no idea how happy I was that I finally found the model for JJ.

I like that JJ looks like a sweet blond boy-next-door, yet he's actually a major bitch. Kind of like a male Tara Lipinsky. She had a sweetheart persona, yet from all accounts I've heard Tara was a major, major bitch.

Mark Arbour · July 14, 2011

God, I could just see Brad watching JJ's interview where he refers to him as "Uncle", and talks about how Christian faith got him through the horrors of being raised without loving parents. Brad's knuckles would likely be gripping the arms of his lazy boy, white as day.

Glad you like Lucas Till. I'd been looking for two years for a JJ, and Mark turned down each one. Then a mutual online friend mentioned having a crush on Lucas Till, the guy from the new XMen movie, and I thought, "Wow, this guy would make a great JJ." Mark ran with it. You have no idea how happy I was that I finally found the model for JJ.

I like that JJ looks like a sweet blond boy-next-door, yet he's actually a major bitch. Kind of like a male Tara Lipinsky. She had a sweetheart persona, yet from all accounts I've heard Tara was a major, major bitch.

I am quite sure that there are no "Lazy Boy" recliners in the house in Malibu, or at Escorial.

methodwriter85 · July 14, 2011

Okay. His overstuff genunine leather couch handmade and imported from Italy. Point is, I'm just saying he'd be so pissed at JJ he couldn't even speak. LOL.

B1ue · July 14, 2011

And what Will would have to say does not bear thinking on. That more or less what I meant when I mentioned all this as a plot point for Brad or Will, though truly, JJ would tell this story best himself, the drama, the fighting, the pain of potentially losing his father and brother over an increasingly competitive sport with an increasingly ludicrous expectations when he's off the ice. And if all this sacrifice and hardship does not result in a chance to compete...yeah, to paraphrase Robin Williams, JJ in THAT diva-rage would make Tonya Harding look like Gigdet.

But I'll compromise, Will can co-narrate this story as well, when Mark gets around to writng it.

PrivateTim · July 14, 2011

I had someone very familiar with figure skating weigh in on this. Here's what she said:

I think JJ definitely has to have a pristine image - the media may not care too much yet about someone who is still at the junior level (but that's definitely going to change once he's a senior), but the pessure from the USFSA would already be enormous. Skaters don't go to parties, raves, or anything like that. Skaters go to school, practice, and church.

And I agree, he wouldn't do much sexually either, even behind closed doors, because he really does need to focus on school and practice, and both is very time consuming. There's not much time he could spend on socializing.

So yeah, no raves and clubs for JJ. At least, not yet. He can't do the kinds of things that John and Will are doing because of the pressure he's getting from the USFSA.

Which is refreshing, because I'm finding that I'm having to bare-knuckle my way through reading about 13-year olds having sex and experimenting with drugs. LOL.

It is sounding like JJ going up in the skating world is going to be a non-starter. No matter how pristine his personal image is, he's still going to be Will's older brother, Brad and Jeanine's son, Stef's nephew, and Tiffany's student. (And Ella's uncle, but whatever. Actually, I bet she'd call him Aunt JJ if she was bratty at all. I would.) Never mind the gay aspect, which seems bad enough, but Robbie is a Hollywood producer, who with his partner regularly attends exactly the kind of parties they'd find so troubling.

Anyways, my point is that there is no real way to play by their rules, because his very existence, birth, and nurturing seem anathema to one trying to maintain a pristine image. And yeah, he could say, "They're just my family, I'm sane." But, could he really say that? And would it work anyways? He could also try the "f**k the police" route, and let his talent open doors that his behavior may not. Either way, it could turn into an interesting story, perhaps if he gets a go at narrating. If not, it'd be an interesting plot point for either Brad or Will, or even Matt if Tiffany, Jeanine, and JJ split the family up and head to NJ.

I am not sure where your inside source is getting their information, but I used to see one very prominent US figure skater out and about in the community in the mid to late 1990's and at least two raves because he ran in a social group that touched my social group (as in a couple of guys floated back and forth between the two groups) and at a couple of low key parties I was at.

Yes the USFSA would LIKE to control their image and their athletes, but they can't. Let's be honest folks, it isn't exactly a secret that there are a lot of gay men in the USFSA, past present and future. It was easy to keep under wraps for a while, but when major figures in the skating world started to show up as HIV+, we all knew it wasn't because they were Hatian.

And the circumstances of JJ's family would not matter. No USOC Group A organization could ever be seen as having an anti-gay bias, that would be death to their leadership and if the organization didn't dump the leadership, the organization would jeopardize their Group A status.

Yes, the 2011 group of juniors are very social media savy, but let's remember that in 2000 we didn't have MySpace or Facebook or even Friendster. It seems like they have been around forever, but in reality MySpace launched in 2003 and Facebook in 2004, but it wasn't until 2006 that Facebook opened up to anyone who wanted to join. Until then you had to join with an email that ended in .edu. In 2000 AOL was the 800 pound gorilla, dial-up was still dominant and there were a whole host of short lived concepts and sites that are no longer with us.

In short, as much as USFSA would like their skaters to behave in a certain way, there is in actuallity little they can do to control them. Have we forgotten Tanya?

Daisy139 · July 14, 2011

If that skater was in the CA area, I have a feeling I know who you're talking about (did he represent a European country at international competitions but compete at US Nationals also?). Anyway, low key parties in (sort of) pre-internet times may not be a problem, because nobody is going to find out.

But it's my understanding JJ will have his senior career in the early to mid 2000s, so he will have the internet to deal with. When he goes to nationa/international competitions, he will have USFSA peole trailing behind him and teaching him what to say at press conferences, what to wear for the draw, and who not to associate with. The USFSA will even select the journalists and photographers JJ may or may not talk to. At international competitions, the only times a US skater is not chaperoned by a USFSA person is in the dressing room, bathroom, on the ice, and on the bus to the hotel (sometimes). They will monitor his official website and check whether he has any other social network things going, a private blog in which he's easily identified, etc. Also, if a skater builds up a certain reputation, they won't get contracts for shows anymore. Happened just recently...

And the thing about the family background was mainly the fact that Stef and Brad are among the world's richest people. This might make JJ particularly vulnerable to be approached by corrupt judges, or to the general rumor that "he just got a medal at Nationals because of his rich daddy." Nobdoy wants to deal with things like that, so skating under an alias might help that a bit.

I guess everybody knows that there's more gay than straight skaters, but there's a whole lot of pretending going on. Everybody pretends to be straight, except Johnny Weir (who got to pay the price for it...), and a few select others (yes, including Rudy Galindo, but he gets away with it I think because he's a popular entertainer and doesn't make controversial comments...).

Edited to say - the USFSA chaperoning at competitions I believe increased dramatically in the mid 2000s, and if I had to speculate I would say it was because of JW. But who knows. But in the early 2000s I did not observe USFSA officials trailing behind skaters everywhere they went, but a few years later that became the norm.

Edited July 14, 2011 by Daisy139

methodwriter85 · July 14, 2011

I am not sure where your inside source is getting their information, but I used to see one very prominent US figure skater out and about in the community in the mid to late 1990's and at least two raves because he ran in a social group that touched my social group (as in a couple of guys floated back and forth between the two groups) and at a couple of low key parties I was at.

Wow. He was doing that as a 14-year old junior? Damn, I'm impressed.

Yes, the 2011 group of juniors are very social media savy, but let's remember that in 2000 we didn't have MySpace or Facebook or even Friendster. It seems like they have been around forever, but in reality MySpace launched in 2003 and Facebook in 2004, but it wasn't until 2006 that Facebook opened up to anyone who wanted to join. Until then you had to join with an email that ended in .edu. In 2000 AOL was the 800 pound gorilla, dial-up was still dominant and there were a whole host of short lived concepts and sites that are no longer with us.

We had Live Journal, and we had online discussion boards like FanForum. It's really not that out of whack to imagine Jeremy James having a dedicated message board to him, with people following his every move, in 2000/2001. And by 2003, there's camera cell phones which means if someone took a picture of him doing one stupid thing in public he could find himself out of a sponsor.

In short, as much as USFSA would like their skaters to behave in a certain way, there is in actuallity little they can do to control them. Have we forgotten Tanya?

Yeah. I'm sure JJ wants to emulate his figure skating career on Tonya Harding, who now appears on True TV's "World's Dumbest Criminals" as a tv commenter. Or Johnny Weir, for that example. Who's basically been put out to pasture with little prospects for sponsorships or tours.

I think, going by what Daisy is saying, you basically play by the rules. If you don't, you get blacklisted and your future prospects go up in smoke. Since you only have a limited time to compete, it would seem dumb to risk not getting high marks because the judges don't like your off-ice behavior. If you don't get the high marks and have an impressive career overrall, then you don't get prime coaching jobs and the like when you're past your physical prime. Rebels do not seem to get rewarded in this field.

JJ would tell this story best himself, the drama, the fighting, the pain of potentially losing his father and brother over an increasingly competitive sport with an increasingly ludicrous expectations when he's off the ice. And if all this sacrifice and hardship does not result in a chance to compete...yeah, to paraphrase Robin Williams, JJ in THAT diva-rage would make Tonya Harding look like Gigdet. But I'll compromise, Will can co-narrate this story as well, when Mark gets around to writng it

It would be really dramatic, and best of all, it would be somewhere we've never gone before.

Instead of Will, what about John? He'll be a freshman in college in winter/spring 2006(go, class of 2005!), and with him being a lacrosse player he could provide some interesting commentary on the breaking Duke University Lacrosse case. Maybe he and his teammates dress up like Duke Lacrosse guys as a joke(I knew guys that did that), Marie sees it on Facebook, tells Claire, and Clarie goes APESHIT. Tell me you wouldn't want to be a fly on the wall for that angry phone call.

Edited July 14, 2011 by methodwriter85

B1ue · July 18, 2011

Wandering back towards the original thread topic, I came across this add while I was driving from home this weekened. Since Bakersfield is imminent, I thought I'd share the point of view Central Californians have of themselves.

In other news, I miss my pickup, though my wind-up toy is a lot easier to park and fuel.

PrivateTim · July 18, 2011

Yeah. I'm sure JJ wants to emulate his figure skating career on Tonya Harding, who now appears on True TV's "World's Dumbest Criminals" as a tv commenter. Or Johnny Weir, for that example. Who's basically been put out to pasture with little prospects for sponsorships or tours.

I think, going by what Daisy is saying, you basically play by the rules. If you don't, you get blacklisted and your future prospects go up in smoke. Since you only have a limited time to compete, it would seem dumb to risk not getting high marks because the judges don't like your off-ice behavior. If you don't get the high marks and have an impressive career overrall, then you don't get prime coaching jobs and the like when you're past your physical prime. Rebels do not seem to get rewarded in this field.

Except of course JJ is poor white trash like Tanya was and continues to be. JJ comes from a rich powerful family, the kind of family that USFSA would like to have sponsoring national teams and programs.

And Johnny W, what can you say.

methodwriter85 · July 18, 2011

Tim, you are clearly interested in a lot of various subjects, and you can offer some very good insight on a lot of them. For example, the writing team here has deferred to you a lot on things like L.A. party culture, rich Coastal families, and the culture of non-religious California private schools. But there are some things that other people have clearly more experience in, like figure skating, and this is why Mark's writing team has chosen to consult with Daisy over that particular subject instead of you. Thank you for your interest, though.

Going back to questions about CA...so Will doesn't turn 16 until the start of his junior year. How would that affect him taking Driver's Ed? If I were using my Delaware experience, Will would have taken Driver's Ed during the spring semester of 10th grade year. Then he would have gotten his permit in July 2002, at the age of 15 and 10 months, with a full license in March 2003 when he was 16 and a half. Of course, laws vary, so how would that work here? I'm hoping against hope that Mark's going to skip over 2002 because I'm frankly begging him to give us at least a year jump once we get past the 9/11 story, but in case we don't I'm curious about how it works if we do see Will and JJ's sophomore year of high school

Edited July 19, 2011 by methodwriter85

B1ue · July 19, 2011

You took drivers ed freshman year, driver's training (on the road 6 hour course) once you had your permit at 15 1/2 months.

Tim, that picture was from last month. He's admitted that because he's come out, his prospects for furhter competition are slim to none, so he reeally had no reason not to do an event like LA Pride.

methodwriter85 · July 19, 2011

You took drivers ed freshman year, driver's training (on the road 6 hour course) once you had your permit at 15 1/2 months.

Freshman year? Damn. That seems crazy; although given the amount of driving California people have to do, it's not that surprising they'd start people off earlier. That would likely mean JJ would take Driver's ed his first two marking periods and get his permit in May 2001, when he's 15 and a half. Will should then take his Driver's Ed during the spring semester of freshman year, recieving his permit in March 2002. (I'm assuming you meant age 15 and a half years.)

There's been a move on the East Coast to start rising the driving age because of all the teenaged driver accidents, but these kids get in just before all of that. It'll be funny to watch Will have to be the last of his friends to get his license because of his age. That was pretty true to life for the kids who were on the younger side in their class year.

Tim, that picture was from last month. He's admitted that because he's come out, his prospects for further competition are slim to none, so he really had no reason not to do an event like LA Pride.

I'm just thinking that JJ, having grown up with Evan Lycasek while training at El Segundo, would side squarely on Evan's side in the rivalry and have nothing but disdain for Johnny Weir. The point that Daisy keeps making, and the point that makes a lot of sense, is if you publically embarrass the figure skating community, you're blacklisted and your chances of doing anything significant in the field afterwards is pretty much nil. Why on earth would JJ, who's been well-versed in P.R. being from two high-profile families, do anything to jepoardize his chances at getting a Gold medal and getting himself on a Wheaties box? This is a kid who spends hours in his room practicing a single stance. I cannot see him risking the wrath of judges and getting low marks so he could become some kind of Beverly Hills party kid socialite.

I'm just surprised Tim is being so opinionated about the direction of JJ's career/personal life, since he doesn't even like this character.

PrivateTim · July 19, 2011

I'm just surprised Tim is being so opinionated about the direction of JJ's career/personal life, since he doesn't even like this character.

I haven't worked that much with USFSA directly, but I am involved with two other Group A USOC organizations and have been in meetings in Colorado Springs where the USFSA reps were there. I have a good idea of the challenges of each organzation of minor sports.

B1ue · July 19, 2011

Freshman year? Damn. That seems crazy; although given the amount of driving California people have to do, it's not that surprising they'd start people off earlier. That would likely mean JJ would take Driver's ed his first two marking periods and get his permit in May 2001, when he's 15 and a half. Will should then take his Driver's Ed during the spring semester of freshman year, recieving his permit in March 2002. (I'm assuming you meant age 15 and a half years.)

There's been a move on the East Coast to start rising the driving age because of all the teenaged driver accidents, but these kids get in just before all of that. It'll be funny to watch Will have to be the last of his friends to get his license because of his age. That was pretty true to life for the kids who were on the younger side in their class year.

I took Driver's Ed first sememster my freshman year, August 1998, though I wasn't eligible to take the written test until August 1999. So Will might have taken the class either semester. You're just expected to brush up on it prior to taking the offical exam. It may have changed, but the Life Skills class was during that time a standard freshman class, with one semester devoted to Driver's ED, the other to Sex Education, with some drug prevention education crammed in between. My little rural high school actually had a comprehensive and very good sex education class, much better than was typically offered at the time. Probably even more so now. Keep in mind though, I went to a public school, and a private school may have it set up differently. They may choose to not offer the class at all, and parents would be expected to enroll their children in an off-campus classroom course.

Also, as an aside, that movement has gained traction in California. Most teenagers now are not going to be able to get a permit or license until they turn 18.

methodwriter85 · July 19, 2011

Also, as an aside, that movement has gained traction in California. Most teenagers now are not going to be able to get a permit or license until they turn 18.

That essentially takes driving out of the equation for the high school experience. Kinda funny to think that rich kids will have to rely on either chauffers or drivers to do parties in high school, and the kids who need to work are basically screwed.

Mark Arbour · July 20, 2011

Tim, you are clearly interested in a lot of various subjects, and you can offer some very good insight on a lot of them. For example, the writing team here has deferred to you a lot on things like L.A. party culture, rich Coastal families, and the culture of non-religious California private schools. But there are some things that other people have clearly more experience in, like figure skating, and this is why Mark's writing team has chosen to consult with Daisy over that particular subject instead of you. Thank you for your interest, though.

Going back to questions about CA...so Will doesn't turn 16 until the start of his junior year. How would that affect him taking Driver's Ed? If I were using my Delaware experience, Will would have taken Driver's Ed during the spring semester of 10th grade year. Then he would have gotten his permit in July 2002, at the age of 15 and 10 months, with a full license in March 2003 when he was 16 and a half. Of course, laws vary, so how would that work here? I'm hoping against hope that Mark's going to skip over 2002 because I'm frankly begging him to give us at least a year jump once we get past the 9/11 story, but in case we don't I'm curious about how it works if we do see Will and JJ's sophomore year of high school

Daisy knows her stuff, and she's an invaluable resource when it comes to figure skating (and on a few other topics as well, I'm sure!). That doesn't mean I don't want to hear what other people have to say. I think that as we develop the topic, Daisy will get to shine more, and people will realize that she knows her shit. If Tim and others raise interesting points, and we can impose on Daisy to enlighten us, we all learn a little more. That's a good thing. It's vital to me that my forum remain open door...open and unlocked...kind of like all the doors at Escorial. Of course, if someone pisses me off, I reserve the right to change my mind.

You took drivers ed freshman year, driver's training (on the road 6 hour course) once you had your permit at 15 1/2 months.

Tim, that picture was from last month. He's admitted that because he's come out, his prospects for furhter competition are slim to none, so he reeally had no reason not to do an event like LA Pride.

Things have certainly changed since back in the dark ages when I took it. In the '70's/'80's, you took "Safety Education" in your Sophomore year of high school. You had to complete somewhere between 10-30 hours of behind the wheel driving experience from a driving school (or some number of hours..it's been a long f**king time and I don't remember exactly). You could get that experience by taking the class at school, or you could take private lessons. The problem was that with the way the ages lined up, and the way the classes were limited due to budget constraints (some things never change), if you wanted your license on your 16th birthday, you almost had to take private lessons.

methodwriter85 · July 21, 2011

When I was going through Driver's Ed in 2002, there was already an increasing of age going on- I think permit age had been moved up to 15 and a half years old, and you couldn't have a full license until you were 16 and a half/closer to seventeen. That meant you had to drive under curfew for an entire year. (I wound up bombing Driver's Ed. If you did that, you had to wait until you were 18 and go through the DMV.)

So Blue, that means you do get your license on your 16th birthday, right? At least for circa 2000 California. Were these graduated licenses with restrictions on when and were you could drive? Or just full licenses right at 16?

I just realized that you're doing a 9/11 story anyway, so we'll see the begnnings of Will and JJ's tenth grade year, if only mentioned in passing by whoever the protagonist is. I guess references can be dropped about the boys learning how to drive. Since JJ is going to get his license first it'd be funny if Jeanine nagged him about giving Will rides. Not so much because Will would need them since there's the chauffer, but to keep them bonded and talking to one another.

Will's going to get a SUV, like the one Gathan got, and I see JJ with a compact, hip, European car. Defnitely not a BMW- way too boring and staid for JJ. He'd want something chic with flashy colors, like a 2002 Mini-Cooper.

Or maybe this-

I could also see JJ going classic, getting something like an Austin Healey. I think his Vanity Plates would read "1JJ1". lol (Extra points if you get the reference.)

Edited July 21, 2011 by methodwriter85

B1ue · July 21, 2011

I could have had a license at 16 in theory. However, the "terrible at driving" had to be factored in, so I didn't actually get one until closer to 18. The age restrcition would not have applied to me in any case, since I lived in a rural area and needed a car to get to and from school. Or, I would have, had my best friend, my cousin, and a couple of girls that thought I was cute not lived within a couple miles of me. Or I didn't just run it for the hell of it some mornings.

Edit: Actually, for the first six months of a license, you are not allowed to give anyone under age 18 a ride without an adult (age 25+) present in the car. Or, maybe it's the first year. I can't remember; I'm sure that particular law is still available. Heck, the DMV manual from 2003 is probably available in pdf.. So, no brother bonding until they both have a license anyways.

methodwriter85 · July 21, 2011

Right. There was a similiar rule in Delaware, although the adult requirement was over by the time you got to the full license at near 17. I remember having a friend who couldn't drive past 10 p.m. He would give me rides. I was similiar at sucking at driving.

Can you try and find an old CA driver's manual to figure out what the rules were in the early '00s? It just seems like there's been a lot of changes with regards to teenage drivers.

methodwriter85 · July 30, 2011

California Culture: Circa 2000

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