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From The Cup Of The Worthless By Cynus


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Hello, readers. :) I created this forum topic in order to more easily share extra information about the world of "From the Cup of the Worthless". 

The symbol below is the daimon of the Inagawa-kai, the Yakuza family Nobuyuki is part of. It will pop up from time to time in the story. :)

 

 

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I'll be sure to follow. That diamond looks really good. A 20s/30s feel to it. Did you draw that yourself?

 

What is that plant? Looks a little like rice, but that's probably my prejudice talking.

 

I was doing some research on the subject, and though I was able to determine that it was rice for certain, I was stuck on dissecting the rest of it. Thankfully, the community here was able to help me with that. Escapist, a new friend of mine, here, was able to provide a rather thorough and logical answer, which is as follows:

 

"As you can tell from Wikipedia, Inagawa-kai was started by someone with the surname of Inagawa. The two characters making up the name are "ine" (rice, often read as "ina" in names) and "kawa" (river).

 

Rice: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/稲

River: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/川

 

As you can see from the daimon, there are two rice bushels framing the centre, which must have been taken from the "ine" or "rice" of the founder's name.

 

The obvious guess for the central form is that it would be a stylised form of the character "kawa" for river, which looks like three vertical lines. However, it could also be taken as "yama" or "mountain", which looks a little closer. My guess is that they've gone for symmetry and it's the character for "river", but I can't find any evidence to back that up. I can't think of any logical reason why it would be anything other than "kawa" though.

 

Mountain: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/山

 
There is also another character for river, a bit more complicated, from which they might have taken the central part, but this is not the same character used in Inagawa's name, so I think that is highly unlikely.
 
 
Regarding the outer circle, I couldn't find anything particular, but if you look at the chrysanthemum ring (image search below), you'll see that the ring in the daimon has sixteen indentations, as does the chrysanthemum ring. It may be that the outer circle represents the chrysanthemum, the imperial crest. Tangential evidence that suggests this might be correct is that the founder, and most yakuza today I understand, are supportive of the imperial family. Adding a stylised form like this may be indicative of this.
 
 

However, you should take all this with a pinch of salt as it isn't my field of research. The "ine" is clear, the "kawa" is probable, the "chrysanthemum" is conjecture." 

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Puppilull mentioned in her review of chapter 3 that she'd like to see the type of tattoos commonly seen in the Yakuza. Here are a couple of examples, as well as a link to some information about the Japanese art of tattooing, should you be interested. :)

https://www.tsunagujapan.com/17-facts-you-probably-didnt-know-about-tattoos-in-japan/

 

 

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modern-day-irezumi-3.jpg

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Wow! It's jus so not how I picture anyone from Japan. It's my own prejudice again, but these tattoos are just so bold and in your face. I guess that's the point... Really amazing art work!

In a way, that's the trick to it all. 

 

The Yakuza don't show off their tattoos unless it's to other Yakuza, usually. Honestly, it's easy to not even know they have them, because they often wear full suits which hide them. 

 

I've often thought of Japan as being opposite to the Western world in one particular way, and I think it's very prominent in this example.

 

Here in the West, we are expected to extroverted in order to play by the rules of society. You are expected to be outgoing, to speak up when you see something wrong. To go out of your way to make friends and to treat guests with enthusiastic hospitality. An introvert has to learn how to play by these rules if they want to get anywhere, and it doesn't come naturally to them.

 

In Japan, (Unless you're part of certain particular subcultures, some of which are famous here and can skew perspective) you are expected to be introverted in order to play by the rules of society. You are expected to be reserved, to hold your tongue out of respect for others' business. To go out of your way to be polite and to defer to others who are of equal rank or higher in social standing. To treat guests with respect but to in general leave them alone. An extrovert is often completely baffled by these rules but has to learn how to play by them anyway, and it doesn't come naturally to them.

 

And so, you wouldn't see the Japanese showing off their tattoos in public, you'd see them in private where their introverted rules allow them to show them to you, because you've entered their inner circle. :) 

 

The Yakuza, however, are more extroverted as a group than usual Japanese, though they are still quite wary of outsiders.

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Hey Cynus! :hug:

 

I finally began reading this story, and I love it! :D I especially like the history you made for it!

 

 

Oh! And this discussion on the subcultures reminded me of this video on Japanese standards of female beauty over the last century. :)

 

Edited by Drew Espinosa
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Hey Cynus! :hug:

 

I finally began reading this story, and I love it! :D I especially like the history you made for it!

 

 

Oh! And this discussion on the subcultures reminded me of this video on Japanese standards of female beauty over the last century. :)

 

Thanks, Spawnling. :)

 

I loved the video! I'm a very big fan of the channel which produced it, actually. CutVideo (And their derivatives) make a lot of thought provoking videos which I find fascinating, and this particular series following the history of fashion in different cultures is one of my favorites. They were hiring sometime last year, and I actually considered applying. I'm still kicking myself for not doing so.

 

I appreciate the additional insight into Japanese culture, however. Thanks for sharing!

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My first reaction was he was from the FBI or something, since he seemed to be trying to get to know Nobu. Then when he let slip he was mafia too, that changed the playing field. It's turning into gangster high, with Viktor in the middle.

 

Dante himself seems much more happy go lucky then Nobu, Viktor and Vladi, but that could be an act. Or perhaps his family isn't threatening to kill him on a daily basis. I'm guessing there's more to him than what we first see. Now he's trying to get Nobu to side with him. Being cautious is probably wise.

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My first reaction was he was from the FBI or something, since he seemed to be trying to get to know Nobu. Then when he let slip he was mafia too, that changed the playing field. It's turning into gangster high, with Viktor in the middle.

 

Dante himself seems much more happy go lucky then Nobu, Viktor and Vladi, but that could be an act. Or perhaps his family isn't threatening to kill him on a daily basis. I'm guessing there's more to him than what we first see. Now he's trying to get Nobu to side with him. Being cautious is probably wise.

Poor Viktor, he is surrounded by gangsters, isn't he? Of course, that's largely due to him being contested territory. Once one gang thinks something belongs to them, they won't give it up easily. :)

 

There is much more to Dante, definitely. I modeled him a bit off the character Neal Caffrey from the show "White Collar". I think you're going to like what you see as you get to know him more, and especially as you get into his head. :)

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Devilsire, FtCotW reminds of Romeo and Juliet . All these rival families (well... Gangs lol) fighting each other. And a pair of star crossed lovers! :D

I will take that as a compliment, considering Romeo and Juliet is perhaps the most commonly copied story. It wouldn't be copied if people didn't love it. :D Thank you, spawnling!

 

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Oh, Ulrik! He's actually not only a good singer, but also an accomplished actor. And ever so cute...

 

The latest chapter was heartbreaking to read. I feel so sorry for Viktor, being so torn between who he is and his will to be who father expects him to be. For him to hear Vladi say those things... He's so alone. How's he supposed to know it wasn't Vladi's true feelings?

 

I'm glad Vladi wasn't the brute he's appeared to be in previous chapters. He's putting on an act. To cover what? His connection to the Russian nafia? Or something else? I'm curious to know what their father was alluding to.

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Oh, Ulrik! He's actually not only a good singer, but also an accomplished actor. And ever so cute...

 

I had no idea he was an actor as well! Any movies you'd recommend that he's in? I'm assuming they're all Swedish movies so I'll have to use subtitles, but I'm okay with that. :)

 

He is definitely cute, though. I fell in love with him when he was 17, and I've always wanted to base a character off him. Still haven't really done that, but I have used his physical attributes.

 

The latest chapter was heartbreaking to read. I feel so sorry for Viktor, being so torn between who he is and his will to be who father expects him to be. For him to hear Vladi say those things... He's so alone. How's he supposed to know it wasn't Vladi's true feelings?

But isn't that how life works sometimes? Often we try to hide parts of ourselves or our true feelings because we're afraid of judgment or of hurting someone else's feelings, when if they knew our honest thoughts they often times would leave us alone, or perhaps even agree. I've come to learn that it's better to be true to myself than what others want me to be, but I certainly didn't follow that philosophy very well when I was either Viktor or Vladi's age. Teenagers have a knack for hiding themselves from others in order to fit in.

 

I'm glad Vladi wasn't the brute he's appeared to be in previous chapters. He's putting on an act. To cover what? His connection to the Russian nafia? Or something else? I'm curious to know what their father was alluding to.

There's a lot that Viktor doesn't know about Vladi, and so Vladimir has a great deal he feels he needs to protect. Viktor is the only member of his family he understands, and he can't bear the thought of losing him for any reason. I don't know if you'll be surprised or not as you get to know Vladimir better, but there will certainly be more to come.

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Dante comes off as unassuming, but I'm not so sure he's not to be feared. He mentioned playing the long con, so obviously he has no problem taking his time to trap either Nobu or Viktor. He says a lot but we really don't know whom he playing. Feels like if he causes a split between Viktor and Nobu, he will be free to pit one against the other. Ahh it could go so many ways just yet.. Also, the boys seem to be under obligation to their fathers. We haven't met Dante's yet, so we don't know what role he's expected to play in the family business. 

 

I love the muses for Victor and Dante.. 

Poor Viktor, he is surrounded by gangsters, isn't he? Of course, that's largely due to him being contested territory. Once one gang thinks something belongs to them, they won't give it up easily. :)

There is much more to Dante, definitely. I modeled him a bit off the character Neal Caffrey from the show "White Collar". I think you're going to like what you see as you get to know him more, and especially as you get into his head. :) Here's a picture of what I envision Dante looks like:

 

Then you mention this... Neal Caffrey was hot, lovavable and slippery as they came, so now I wonder about Dante.. 

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Dante comes off as unassuming, but I'm not so sure he's not to be feared. He mentioned playing the long con, so obviously he has no problem taking his time to trap either Nobu or Viktor. He says a lot but we really don't know whom he playing. Feels like if he causes a split between Viktor and Nobu, he will be free to pit one against the other. Ahh it could go so many ways just yet.. Also, the boys seem to be under obligation to their fathers. We haven't met Dante's yet, so we don't know what role he's expected to play in the family business. 

 

I love the muses for Victor and Dante.. 

Then you mention this... Neal Caffrey was hot, lovavable and slippery as they came, so now I wonder about Dante.. 

Oh, Dante . . . Have I mentioned yet that he's my favorite character? :D Feel free to interpret that how you will, as anyone who knows my "favorites" knows it could mean anything. :evil:

 

As soon as I started writing this story, I knew I was going to base a character off Neal. Not only was his character absolutely brilliant, but Matt Bomer is one of the most attractive men in the universe...

 

Just as we've started to delve into Vladimir, we're going to be peering into Dante a bit deeper as well, though I don't think we truly understand him until chapter 17, so we have a bit to go. :)

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I finally found a picture to represent Nobuyuki. I had one which was passable before, but the kid was probably only 14, which meant you had to add some years, but this one is pretty much perfect. 

So here's Nobu!

 

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