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So... if you have other things to say beyond the Chapter Reviews, or have other questions for me or speculation or whatever you like, I guess we can discuss it here. Alright, fire away!

 
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  • 5 weeks later...

God I'm having trouble with Chapter 6. It used to be what I planned for Chapter 5, in part, but it was going to be waaaaaayyyy too long and some things needed more development in that initial section. And now I have added a different, new, initial section. Ugh. I hope this doesn't run too long. If it does, I guess I can always split off the final scene into a new chapter. It may be more interesting to do it that way, anyway.

 

And everyone still hates Victoria. Oh well. I can live with that. Maybe I like her because I can see her good points, and because I've had good and well-intentioned friends of my own give me some piss-poor advice in the past? Mitchelll (writer of Mr. Brightside) described Alex from 18 Weeks of Twoey as the story's Wesley Crusher. Maybe that's what Vicky is in Shattering.

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I wouldn't say I hate Vicky personally, I just think she's kind of an idiot and maybe a little self absorbed. Certainly not how I disliked Alex for being too... Alex. And definitely not to the level of hatred that Wesley Crusher has.

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This week's chapter is going to be late. Not sure if I will have it done well enough to post tomorrow morning or if it will have to wait until after the weekend. This weekly publishing of completely fresh, off the cuff material is tough! I can't do this flash-fiction style, though. At least, I don't think I can. Besides, 'Running for Home' is already like that (sort of; some of the chapters are long, and one in particular is incredibly long but justifiably so).

 

Gonna keep clipping away at the chapter, though, so maybe I'm worrying for nothing.

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I'd say take your time and publish when you know you've got it right where you need it to be. Well wait... 

 

I wouldn't say I hate Vicky personally, I just think she's kind of an idiot and maybe a little self absorbed. Certainly not how I disliked Alex for being too... Alex. And definitely not to the level of hatred that Wesley Crusher has.

 

Hate is harsh.  Self absorbed is good... I just don't know what to make of her.. 

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Certainly not how I disliked Alex for being too... Alex. And definitely not to the level of hatred that Wesley Crusher has.

 

I definitely wasn't an Alex fan either - and it showed in my reviews. I know why skinny wrote her that way, but holy obnoxious Batman! The breakup with David went a bit too smoothly, though. But discussion of this should go to that forum post, not here, so I must digress...  :off:

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One of my big issues with Alex was that she reminded me too much of a Bieber fan and then became an invasive nuisance. But yes, totally :off:

 

Anyway, I'm assuming Vicky's intentions are good, and you don't want her to be a negative influence in your David's life, so I'm definitely not making up my mind about her yet. I do see her as something like the consolation BFF since David's actual best friend moved away. I'm assuming that will play into the story somewhere down the road.

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We will be hearing from Brady very soon. As in, the next chapter.

 Brady will pop in to the story here and there. Not sure entirely how big a role he will play yet, but there is some interesting subtextual things I'm playing around with as differences between David's relationships, Brady's and Vicky's with Mark. I probably am not going to pull it off, but you never know. But yeah, Vicky is a consolation bff, you are right. She's the fair-weather friend who turned into a foul-weather friend as they got to know each other better.

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  • 2 weeks later...

Sorry dudes and dudettes, I'm had some busy things in life to take care of draining my time and issues with the Muse when I've been free... I guess Shattering is just going to be irregular posting. Maybe that's for the best, right?

 

:/

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Lux, you have my full support and warm thoughts headed your way buddy. I'd love to see a regular posting schedule, just simply because I love your story so far. But yeah, you've gotta have a life too. I of course would encourage you to keep at it, but only as out as you find the process rewarding.

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  • 4 weeks later...

Okay, so Timothy M's been suggesting that the prologue hasn't been helping the story, so I'm removing it for now. I might rework it in the future. It is specifically tied in to a moment that occurs later in the story, but it's becoming clear that it was something that at the outset of writing the story it was a bit of framing in my head that I needed. A number of people have told me it left them a bit confused moving into the regular chapters. The story as it's flowed out as I write has become less dark clouds and more contemplative than I had originally envisaged, I think, and that seems to be for the better. 

 

Anyone have any other thoughts or suggestions?

Edited by lux_apollo
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LOL, just blame it on me, if people get :angry: that you removed the prologue.

Nah, seriously I think the story works great (and better) without the initial drama hook. And the story description still prepares us for what this is about.

 

Interesting that I seem to be the only one who likes Vicky and thinks she provides support and good advice for David. I may have to read the relevant chapter again and see if I overlooked something. My initial take was that it was helpful to David to use her as a sounding board for his worries. And her main advice was 'Talk to Mike' which we all agree with. Plus she was pleased that David declared his love for Mike even after admitting he was attracted to Rain.

 

But then I also liked Alex in skinnydragon's Twoey story. Yeah, she was pushy, but also intelligent and cared about David. Plus she didn't resort to angst and anger when they broke up. Not like Fran

 

 

Robbie's girlfriend in The Cockney Canuck

 

 

 

If you want to see the kind of girl friend which annoys the shit out of me go read A Delicate Situation by Ronyx. I really hate Jade.

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It's bothered me too the Vicky hate. I don't really get it. She's a friend and she gives advice from the heart and at least the most important points are good ones. I think my bad reaction to Alex had as much to do with David's complacency as her pushiness. Skinny never really fleshed out more of her personality the way I wanted him to. I think if we'd gotten to know her traits a little better, it would have helped. We see a bit through her actions, but David never really described much. 

 

I started reading TCC but I put it down because I had too much on the go. It's been a long while, but I read A Delicate Situation when Ronyx was first publishing it. Can't remember if I read it on his own website, or if it was on Nifty at that time. It's a good story, though. I've liked his stuff, even when the stories don't go where I would have liked them to go. Actually, that's happened with more than a good number of them.

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It's bothered me too the Vicky hate. I don't really get it. She's a friend and she gives advice from the heart and at least the most important points are good ones. I think my bad reaction to Alex had as much to do with David's complacency as her pushiness. Skinny never really fleshed out more of her personality the way I wanted him to. I think if we'd gotten to know her traits a little better, it would have helped. We see a bit through her actions, but David never really described much. 

 

I started reading TCC but I put it down because I had too much on the go. It's been a long while, but I read A Delicate Situation when Ronyx was first publishing it. Can't remember if I read it on his own website, or if it was on Nifty at that time. It's a good story, though. I've liked his stuff, even when the stories don't go where I would have liked them to go. Actually, that's happened with more than a good number of them.

I think one issue that I see with Vicky that people disklike is that she seems a bit immature and her advice is often dubious. So people might not think she's all that great of a friend because she seems to hurt more then she helps. What I've noticed but haven't really said is that it seems like after every time she and David talk, David seems to have even more doubt about his relationship instead of the reassurance he's seeking. The "talk to Mike" advice is good, but beyond that she seems to sew seeds of doubt, and I don't think it's deliberate. I think most everybody wants David and Mike to work, so perhaps Vicky steering David to doubt their relationship even more isn't endearing her to some people. But again, for me it's not hate as I see her having good intentions, and for the most part and her overall message is on the right track. I just think David needs other sounding boards. Perhaps by someone with a relationship more like his own, and by that I mean years of commitment together. But that is NOT me telling you what you need to include or what direction to take your story. Those are just random thoughts I've had contemplating the Vicky character.

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David definitely has other sounding boards - Brady and his mother probably being the two most important ones.

 

Speaking from experience, it's hard to know what kind of questions and advice to give people regarding their relationships. Sometimes people choose to be supportive and help a friend boost themselves up when they have doubts about a relationship - and then it comes crashing down disastrously because they held on when they shouldn't have, whether because the partner was cheating (like Alex did to Felix) or because things were just not working between the two parties anymore. Other times, you try and help them frame and clarify their thoughts through questions and giving them things to think about.

 

In the time that Vicky has known David, his relationship with Mike has seemed nothing but solid. She's also not aware of David's history of struggling with an anxiety disorder. When she did see he was becoming distressed in the cafe during chapter 5, she pulls back and tells David she thinks he is nowhere near a breakup. When she sees David's reactions to Rain, and knowing that David is struggling with doubts about his relationship, Vicky guides David into to declaring his commitment to Mike. Saying that kind of thing helps frame things - David loves Mike, and he's not willing to consider any 'grass is greener' scenarios. That is something that is strength-giving to him, I think. Of course, David then had the misfortune of Mike continuing to shoot himself in the foot with bad relationship decisions - making the contrast between his declaration and Mike's seeming lack of investment all the more stark.

 

Actually... I'm gonna go look at what actual advice versus advancing a line of thought I wrote in there just to make sure my remembrance of what I did in chapter 5 is correct.

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Summary of Vicky's Convo with David in Chapter 5:

  • V encourages David to talk to her when he is hesitant talking about things regarding Mike
  • V tells David he is lucky and Mike is an awesome guy
  • V wonders if Mike is becoming a workaholic after David states Mike's work behaviour is unsustainable
  • V asks David if he's talked to Mike about all the things he's saying
  • V asks David if Mike is happier since he started trying harder to bring work home instead of staying at the office
  • V asks questions about Mike's work and David has no answers. She again encourages David to talk to Mike about this stuff because it would help him understand
  • When David gets upset about not knowing what was going on with Mike's work, V tells him not to beat himself up over it.
  • When David wonders if part of the conflict is actually himself having too much time to stew over things, V suggests David try to get back on the horse and find a new job, or take up a sport or hobby again with a social element - these are things that would help David get out of his self-admitted rut (chapter 1) regardless . David even admitted to himself that he needed to get out more in Chapter 1
  • When Brady comes up, V admonishes David for not talking to Brady about this stuff because he is his best friend and would have good insight
  • V puts up the possibility of them moving closer to Mike's work to get rid of his commute and hopefully give him more time to invest into his relationship with David.
  • V again tells David he needs to actively start communicating with Mike about how he feels, and what he feels he needs for their relationship to continue to flourish. Then she brings out the big guns about having a more serious talk about why David and Mike are continuing their relationship if they can't find a balance between one another's needs.
  • David gets upset, V notices and reassures him that she doesn't think they are anywhere near breakup, just that David needs to take some action (talk to Mike!!) as prophylaxis.

So, I'm having trouble seeing which part of that is bad advice? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I really want to hear your perspective. I find it fascinating how different readers see things compared to myself as author, and to other readers of the story.

Edited by lux_apollo
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Actually... I'm gonna go look at what actual advice versus advancing a line of thought I wrote in there just to make sure my remembrance of what I did in chapter 5 is correct.

 

Summary of Vicky's Convo with David in Chapter 5:

 

So, I'm having trouble seeing which part of that is bad advice? I'm not trying to be patronizing, I really want to here your perspective. I find it fascinating how different readers see things compared to myself as author, and to other readers of the story.

 

Thanks :worship:  - that saved me the effort of doing it myself. I'm glad my impression of this chapter was correct. :D

 

Maybe people got left with the impression of Vicky being out of line due to #11 ? :unsure:

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Eh, yeah she was pushing it a bit there, I will agree. She's been through so many breakups that her bias is showing in that moment, I think.

 

Immaturity comes in many forms. I think some of what readers are seeing as Vicky's immaturity is a mask she puts on to disguise her loneliness. She tries to be the 'fun girl'. I have a friend who does this, mostly when she is in large groups of people. She isn't a model for Vicky's character in any other way, though. Vicky is at least dating guys her own age and not ones that match up with some much younger maturity level (not that there is anything wrong with that). I haven't really had a chance to explore that in the story yes, and to be honest I don't know if I will.

Edited by lux_apollo
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Ok lux, you've convinced me that overall her advice has been pretty sound. It seemed like there was a couple other instances of things like no 11 happening in other conversations, nothing overt. I can't recall specifics, so I'm probably remembering wrong. But like I said, I don't hate Vicky anyway.

 

One thing I gotta say though is, you definitely don't have to defend your characters. And I hope I personally haven't made you feel like you do. Sometimes readers get weird and react negatively to characters I happen to really enjoy, and of course it's impossible to please everybody. You're doing a great job with your story, and I for one am loving it and always look forward to the next chapter. :)

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I started reading TCC but I put it down because I had too much on the go. It's been a long while, but I read A Delicate Situation when Ronyx was first publishing it.

 

I just saw droughtquake compared TCC with A Delicate Situation. :lol:

 

Robbie was getting to be as frustrating as A Delicate Situation's Dorian. They both know what they should do, but can't seem to manage to do it.

 

Perhaps we could say they are similar to David? Their own worst enemy?

Edited by Timothy M.
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Perhaps.

 

In Dorian's case, doing what he actually wants to do doesn't just affect him. It affects his relationship with his whole family, the political establishment, and throws his personal life right into America's political spotlight and the 24 hour news cycle. When you've spent your entire life with no freedom, once you do gain freedom there can come a sense of paralysis - the freedom becomes scary, because there now it this big unknown world to deal with. It's the same as the caged animal seeing the cage door finally open - it takes a while to become brave enough to take the actions he wants/should do. Dorian's so used to not upsetting the balance and being crushed under the boot of his father... and his mother is absolutely no help to him. 

 

Anyway... keep reading. You'll see. You have about 7 chapters to go, unless Ronyx has added more material. I took a look; he first published this in 2012.

 

I think the place that David and Dorian's 'own worst enemy' status comes from is different. Dorian's comes from tremendous pressure to be a certain way, and a level of depression, whereas David's here is most definitely an internally generated, anxiety fed insecurity. In David's case, he's got another major transition happening over the next chapter or two with his new job beginning. We'll see how both he and Mike react to this newness.

 

I really need to catch up on TCC. I stopped somewhere around Ch15. Hoo boy, there's 40 chapters now? Ugh. I keep feeling a touch guilty because I get email updates about it, lol. 

Edited by lux_apollo
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Okay, so I'm not the only one who hates Jade.  Seth is a much better friend to Dorian, and is doing what Jade thinks she's doing.  It's telling that Dorian tells Seth the truth about Jerry and Wes, and about the rest of the crap in his life.

 

I liked Vicky, and thought her advice was really insightful.  In her place, I probably would have raised doubts about Mike's fidelity (it's interesting that David connects to Alex's situation and not Felix's). 

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