readers Readers, What Do You Skip?

[Page Scrawler]

On 11/5/2017 at 2:30 AM, BlindAmbition said:

I forgot this. If you are an author with multiple stories, don't use the same A and B characters with new names and locales. It's obvious and lacks originality and imagination.

I've been guilty of this, once or twice. I recycled the same name from several different story premises. If anyone checks my status updates, they'll know what I'm talking about. However, this wasn't intended to be a permanent basis; rather, it was meant to be temporary until I found a name that better-suited the character in question.

[Former Member]

52 minutes ago, Page Scrawler said:

I've been guilty of this, once or twice. I recycled the same name from several different story premises. If anyone checks my status updates, they'll know what I'm talking about. However, this wasn't intended to be a permanent basis; rather, it was meant to be temporary until I found a name that better-suited the character in question.

But @BlindAmbition should be sure to avoid an author who bases the protagonist and his husband/partner/lover on himself and his own situation. Said author has written several long stories with different settings and even genres. In a couple cases, his protagonist even shares the author’s own first name. In one case, two characters from one story crossed over to another in a wildly different genre and interacted with each other – there were comments about how they looked like twins separated at birth!  ;-)

 

The author is working through his issues following his husband's death from cancer. One story is particularly close to the real situation and the author hasn’t been able to get much past the diagnosis. Another story is in the vampire genre which allows his husband to live forever. He has about three stories he’s been updating concurrently.

 

But he is very easy to tease! I continually suggest that his stories are or should be crossing over. I think he realized it was a mistake to have done the crossover, as fun as it was, and refuses to do it again.  ;-)

 

PM me if you really want to know who I’m referring to – if you don’t already know!  ;-)

Edited March 7, 2018 by Former Member

[Page Scrawler]

Long-winded descriptions or infodumps turn me off. Or, sentences that go like this:

• "Whoa, your s amaz inng!" He exclamed ecittedly. (Bad grammar)
• The fourteen-year-old sighed in frustration. (Lack of nouns)
• "If you lay so much as a finger on him, I'll kill you." (Overused/clichéd)

I understand that you're not going to like every character that the writer comes up with. However, if a story has more than one plot, involving a different person, I typically skip over it, especially if the character is someone I'm not interested in. If readers aren't interested in a particular person, the story is probably better-served if the author got rid of him/her/them.

Personally, I try to avoid writing infodumps, unless I feel that I have to describe something in detail, and then I try to stagger it gradually across several chapters. As a writer, I'm very strict about grammar and spelling, and I hold other authors to the same standard. Lack of nouns, or using descriptives in place of nouns, is lazy and can be redundant if the writer has already revealed that part of their characters. Clichéd sentences are....well, clichéd. Nobody wants to read the same type of story over and over again, and it reflects a lack of creativity on the writer's part. Here's some clichéd "beginnings" that are common in YA and middle school stories:

• Waking up: getting ready for the day is one of the dullest parts of anyone's life, so why would readers want to see that from their heroes?
• School showcase: The protagonist is picked on by the school bully, only to be rescued by their requisite best friend.
• Room tour: A person sits on their bed, looking over all of their possessions.
• Emo kid: Someone thinking over all of their problems, convinced nothing will ever get better.
• Normal-no-more: A character complaining about how boring their life is, and then suddenly something happens to change that.
• Moving Van: A character has to move to a new house or town, and they're hating every minute of it.
• Mirror Catalogue: A protagonist looking at their reflection in the mirror, describing their physical features, usually in negative tones.
• The Summer of Hell: A protagonist hating the fact that they have to spend the summer doing something horrible.
• Dead parents: One or both parents suddenly die, usually in tragic fashion.
• Dystopian selection: A protagonist in a utopian society, worried that they will be picked for a position at the bottom of the caste system or exiled for lack of any acceptable qualities.

I'm not calling anyone out if they use any of these openings, of course. Just...don't do it the same way that everyone else has done it. Write a new spin on it.  Make it uniquely you, write your own brand of specialness into it!

Edited March 7, 2018 by Page Scrawler

[FormerMember4]

23 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

But @BlindAmbition should be sure to avoid an author who bases the protagonist and his husband/partner/lover on himself and his own situation. Said author has written several long stories with different settings and even genres. In a couple cases, his protagonist even shares the author’s own first name. In one case, two characters from one story crossed over to another in a wildly different genre and interacted with each other – there were comments about how they looked like twins separated at birth!  ;-)

 

The author is working through his issues following his husband's death from cancer. One story is particularly close to the real situation and the author hasn’t been able to get much past the diagnosis. Another story is in the vampire genre which allows his husband to live forever. He has about three stories he’s been updating concurrently.

 

But he is very easy to tease! I continually suggest that his stories are or should be crossing over. I think he realized it was a mistake to have done the crossover, as fun as it was, and refuses to do it again.  ;-)

 

PM me if you really want to know who I’m referring to – if you don’t already know!  ;-)

I was referring in general terms. I don’t read that author. For editing reasons.

[Former Member]

I just tried reading a new story this morning. I got about a quarter or third of the way into the chapter when I just had to stop. The frequent, incorrect use of apostrophes really annoys me! I cannot understand why it’s so difficult to use them properly!

 

Only slightly less annoying to me are excessive commas. If some of those sentences were read out loud, they’d sound even more odd than William Shatner’s idiosyncratic delivery. I haven’t decided if it’s worse when there are too many or too few commas. It can be difficult to read either way.

 

One author who I complained to in a story Comment is going back to school. The stories are getting better technically, but I’m not sure if it’s the school or better editors and beta readers. Judging by the replies to the Comments, I’d guess it’s not the school – yet. I’m just glad the author’s stories are easier to read now!  ;–)

 

 

Now I realize that not all of the authors I read here and elsewhere are native English speakers. I applaud ESL writers because English is the only language I can speak and I’d never survive if I were placed in a situation where no one spoke English! I only wish I could converse in any of the three languages I took classes in.  ;–)

 

I have managed to learn all sorts of interesting homophones and near homophones that seem obvious to me, but not numerous authors: peak/peek/pique (height vs quick look vs irritation), clique/click/cliché (a group vs a sound vs overused [yeah, it took me a while to realize what was meant there]), sic/sick (as in what one orders a dog to do vs what happens when a dog eats chocolate), sight/site/cite (ie vision vs location vs quote). And then there are all the imported words of French origin that have been ‘creatively’ misspelled.  ;–)

 

It’s so much easier to quickly look up a word than in the past – I can remember my mother insisting that we look up a word in the (physical) dictionary when we asked her how to spell it. Dictionary.app on my Mac does a fair job of figuring out what I’m trying to spell even when I’m wildly wrong! (That’s when you try synonyms – either as a substitute or as a possible hint at the word you really want to use.)  ;–)

Edited May 15, 2018 by Former Member

[Carlos Hazday]

6 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

I just tried reading a new story this morning. I got about a quarter or third of the way into the chapter when I just had to stop

 

Hope it wasn't one of mine! LOL

[FormerMember4]

14 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

I just tried reading a new story this morning. I got about a quarter or third of the way into the chapter when I just had to stop. The frequent, incorrect use of apostrophes really annoys me! I cannot understand why it’s so difficult to use them properly!

 

Only slightly less annoying to me are excessive commas. If some of those sentences were read out loud, they’d sound even more odd than William Shatner’s idiosyncratic delivery. I haven’t decided if it’s worse when there are too many or too few commas. It can be difficult to read either way.

 

One author who I complained to in a story Comment is going back to school. The stories are getting better technically, but I’m not sure if it’s the school or better editors and beta readers. Judging by the replies to the Comments, I’d guess it’s not the school – yet. I’m just glad the author’s stories are easier to read now!  ;–)

 

 

Now I realize that not all of the authors I read here and elsewhere are native English speakers. I applaud ESL writers because English is the only language I can speak and I’d never survive if I were placed in a situation where no one spoke English! I only wish I could converse in any of the three languages I took classes in.  ;–)

 

I have managed to learn all sorts of interesting homophones and near homophones that seem obvious to me, but not numerous authors: peak/peek/pique (height vs quick look vs irritation), clique/click/cliché (a group vs a sound vs overused [yeah, it took me a while to realize what was meant there]), sic/sick (as in what one orders a dog to do vs what happens when a dog eats chocolate), sight/site/cite (ie vision vs location vs quote). And then there are all the imported words of French origin that have been ‘creatively’ misspelled.  ;–)

 

It’s so much easier to quickly look up a word than in the past – I can remember my mother insisting that we look up a word in the (physical) dictionary when we asked her how to spell it. Dictionary.app on my Mac does a fair job of figuring out what I’m trying to spell even when I’m wildly wrong! (That’s when you try synonyms – either as a substitute or as a possible hint at the word you really want to use.)  ;–)

Shatner is a genius. What are you talking about? I’m totally joking! It takes him forever to speak a line. Emphasizing the wrong words. 😉

[Brayon]

30 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

The frequent, incorrect use of apostrophes really annoys me!

Th'e use' of apo'stophe's is requi'red when wri'ting in' Elvish'. The' mo're ap'ostro'phes i'n''' a word dic'tates how p'o'w'e'r'f'u'l' it is.

[Former Member]

28 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

 

Hope it wasn't one of mine! LOL

Nope! You’re not that sloppy! I think the author is just a kid.  ;–)

[Former Member]

32 minutes ago, BlindAmbition said:

Shatner is a genius. What are you talking about? I’m totally joking! It takes him forever to speak a line. Emphasizing the wrong words. 😉

Shatner is a native Canadian speaker. He’s speaking English phonetically. We should be more forgiving of his disability.  ;–)

 

 

Yes, this is a mean joke. I love all the authors from the other CA! Even if one protagonist was much too forgiving.  ;–)

[Kitt]

I am beginning to wonder if some of you read ANYTHING.  If you eliminate everything that has been done before, characters who speak poorly, and authors who tell a good story but need technical help, It doesn't leave too much to read!

 

24 minutes ago, BHopper2 said:

Th'e use' of apo'stophe's is requi'red when wri'ting in' Elvish'. The' mo're ap'ostro'phes i'n''' a word dic'tates how p'o'w'e'r'f'u'l' it is.

Good Lord!  Please do NOT ask me to edit any portion of a story in Elvish!

 

50 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

 

Hope it wasn't one of mine! LOL

 

21 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

Nope! You’re not that sloppy! I think the author is just a kid.  ;–)

I hope his editors (myself included) and beta reader isn't either!

[Brayon]

9 minutes ago, Kitt said:

I am beginning to wonder if some of you read ANYTHING.  If you eliminate everything that has been done before, characters who speak poorly, and authors who tell a good story but need technical help, It doesn't leave too much to read!

💯

[Former Member]

2 minutes ago, Kitt said:

I am beginning to wonder if some of you read ANYTHING.  If you eliminate everything that has been done before, characters who speak poorly, and authors who tell a good story but need technical help, It doesn't leave too much to read!

I guess I must reading all the stories that have been done before!  ;–)

 

When you read through the Comment on various stories, you know that we’ve all found things to enjoy.  ;–)

 

I think this is a shades of gray sort of issue. At some indistinctly marked point, those issues overwhelm the story and become too difficult to ignore. If the story is well written and the mistakes are rare, it’s easy to ignore them. When the story is clichéd with difficult to understand dialogue, nonexistent editing, and bad formatting, it’s harder to get through the story. I know that I’ve put up with quite a bit of stuff that bothers me when I like the story overall. (And, no, I’m not referring to anything that anyone here has edited.)

 

 

But I only got through a couple paragraphs this morning when I had to stop. There just wasn’t enough that kept me engaged. It was easier to quit.

[Ashi]

I like details, but it depends on how detail is delivered....  I am a firm believer of "Show, don't tell" but my interpretation of that phrase has always been, more dialogues and character interactions, and less descriptive verbiage.  If via dialogues that you can infer a character's mind set, then don't write out what the character is thinking.  It completely takes out the guessing game.  You want some mystique there.  You want some room for the readers to interpret the character in any way s/he wants it.

 

I gloss over lazy writing.  I mean, the moment I read the basically the same phrases from the novel "Devil Wears Prada," as if the author just cut and pasted the same phrases from chapter 1 to another chapter, I stopped reading it (I think it's only chapter 4 when I declared that book is a piece of junk).  If it's a flashback/flash forward, PLEASE rewrite the same story segment in a way so one section completes the other, but not repeating itself verbatim.  Leave some segments missing in the first run-through.  Go introduce some other setting.  When you're ready to come back to the original theme, let the reprise section fills in the blanks, so all the ends are tied but refrain from repetition.  Repetition of the story just makes the story very boring and incapable of provoking readers' imagination.

 

I do like small details like how a character makes a certain sound, walks a certain way, uses a certain catch phrase nobody else uses, or OCD in some bizarre fashion.  That sets up the characterization, or "method acting," as actors call it.  Then it would eventually explains the psychological insight of a character, and why they make decision a certain way or flawed as a person.  For example, "Tim always cooks curry on Thursday.  He cuts carrots into 1/2 inch cubes, as with Yukon potatoes and onion, always, and without variation."  Wouldn't that make more sense if we later learn Tim is a micro manager, who always follows policy to a T without ever questioning the why?  On the other hand, I don't like any detail that adds no value to the story.

 

 

[Cris L]

After many many years of being on this site, and having read a huge number of stories that I've enjoyed for many different reasons, I do skip quite a lot.. 

 

Poor grammar does annoy me, but if the storyline is good I can overlook it. 

 

The one thing I've found really easy to skip is the god awful writing of a certain  particular quite prolific author. Who shall remain unnamed. 

 

I know from personal experience that writing is hard, and while I'm very creative in my head with stories, I can assure you that once on paper they are abysmal. Hence I've never tried to publish anything here at all. 

Edited January 17, 2019 by Cris L
Clarification and Spelling

[Nick Brady]

I've been around for a long time but am just beginning to read some of the forums. I've missed a lot.

 

My contribution to this discussion is to agree that bad spelling and improper word use are very distracting and will cause me to give up on a story rather quickly. A simple solution to a lot of this is to download "Grammarly" a free tool that not only checks spelling but corrects many other things. It is not a big deal to run your story through this tool and apply the suggested corrections. It not only cleans up a lot of mistakes but is educational. It has improved my writing. Unfortunately, I only discovered this tool long after posting some of my stories on GA. If you read any of them, forgive the errors. I have since set several of my longer stories to print form on Lulu and they have been much improved by the use of Grammarly and a lot of red pencil editing.

[Thorn Wilde]

The overblown description thing is definitely something I skim past. I think the clue here is to not dump it all at once. I don’t mind at all that a writer sets the scene, but it’s not necessary to open with a paragraph that describes everything at once. Have the sun beam down through a canopy of autumn leaves while your character’s smoking a cigarette. He can kick the chainlink fence dividing the park from the construction lot next door. His friend comes walking down the path between tall maple trees. Inserting descriptions between actions is a great way to set the scene without having whole blocks of text telling us exactly what the park looks like. 

 

Also so agree with the main character waking up, looking in the mirror and then describing themselves being a turn-off. It’s boring and old hat, and also, who does that? I like adding descriptors as I go. Character runs his fingers through his blond hair. Another leaves red lipstick traces on her wine glass. Someone is embarrassed but relieved their dark skin hides their blush. And again, space it out. Don’t dump it all at once. Goes for descriptions in general. 

 

So many who don’t like sex scenes! Up until recently I had, like, two stories on here without sex scenes...  I love reading them (provided they’re well written, obvs) and I love writing them. I do write some erotica, but for other stories as well I feel like by skipping them entirely I’m leaving out an essential part of my characters’ lives. I like sex, so my characters do too. I do try to keep it varied (and I fancy myself pretty good at doing so), cause if I get bored my readers certainly will. And a sex scene should further the story. Don’t just shoehorn it in there, make sure it’s relevant. I’ve done a lot of fade to black lately, though. Even written stories that could be rated teen, le gasp!  

 

I think it’s interesting to see what people like and don’t like, and which parts they may skip in a story they otherwise enjoy. I’m gonna keep writing the stories I want to tell, though, and then people can take it or leave it. I suggest others do the same. Sure, we learn as long as we live, and we can enhance our craft and become better writers, but in the end we tell the stories we want to tell. That’s the best any of us can do. And we put it out there and maybe people like it and maybe they don’t. The things in this topic aren’t really rights or wrongs (well, most of them, grammar and spelling matter if you want to make yourself understood), they’re preferences different people have, and some of them are contradictory. Does it matter that this particular person won’t read your story? Lots of other people do.

Edited January 18, 2019 by Thorn Wilde

[Mikiesboy]

6 minutes ago, Thorn Wilde said:

I’m gonna keep writing the stories I want to tell, though, and then people can take it or leave it.

yep ... i only write the story in my head ... all of it. I don't believe in changing things because of reader's feelings. I love their feelings and they can tell me they dislike something or someone but i won't change things because of it.

 

Like i say often ... i want to read the story you wrote ... not my own.  nice one, Thorn xo

[TetRefine]

I tend to just skip over most sex scenes unless it really adds some depth to the story. Most sex scenes are, even in good stories, meant just to titilate the reader and it's boring. 

 

Also, I pretty much skip entirely over the teen romance genre. It's the same damn characters, with the same generic problem, in the same basic setting, over...and over...and over...and over again. So little of the stories told in that genre resemble reality (at least how it was in my teenage years) that they might as well call it fantasy.  To me, it mostly comes off as "this is how I WISH it was when I was a teen." I don't know, maybe that's part of the appeal. 

Edited January 24, 2019 by TetRefine

[Former Member]

3 minutes ago, TetRefine said:

Also, I pretty much skip entirely over the teen romance genre. It's the same damn characters, with the same generic problem, in the same basic setting, over...and over...and over...and over again. So little of the stories told in that genre resemble reality (at least how it was in my teenage years) that they might as well call it fantasy.  To me, it mostly comes off as "this is how I WISH it was when I was a teen." I don't know, maybe that's part of the appeal. 

Teen Romance as a sub-genre of the Wish Fulfillment genre. That seems about right. Most of the stories are written by authors who want to revise their teen experiences to suit what they believe are wildly different circumstances. But they forget to adjust their reactions and experiences to a level consistent with the age of their protagonists.

 

Of course, there are exceptions to these generalizations. Several of the authors I follow write very realistic teen characters. I do have a few guilty pleasures and one or two that I got so far into that I’m just waiting for the conclusion after a once promising beginning.

[Thorn Wilde]

23 hours ago, TetRefine said:

Also, I pretty much skip entirely over the teen romance genre. It's the same damn characters, with the same generic problem, in the same basic setting, over...and over...and over...and over again. So little of the stories told in that genre resemble reality (at least how it was in my teenage years) that they might as well call it fantasy.  To me, it mostly comes off as "this is how I WISH it was when I was a teen." I don't know, maybe that's part of the appeal. 

 

I dunno, I've read some teen romance that was very gritty and realistic. And when I write that sort of thing it tends to involve bullying, dysfunctional families, and so on, and I work hard to make my teen characters behave like teens, speak like teens, and screw up like teens. What you describe can happen in any genre, especially romance in general, and is invariably boring. Well adjusted 'normal' people are boring. Stories where everything goes right for the characters are boring. The best characters are flawed and dysfunctional, IMO, and that goes for every genre. Those are the characters I write and like to read about, and they turn up in plenty of YA fiction and teen romances. Some people write stories about the way they wish it was. Others write about how it actually is.

Edited January 25, 2019 by Thorn Wilde

[Carlos Hazday]

13 minutes ago, Thorn Wilde said:

Well adjusted 'normal' people are boring. Stories where everything goes right for the characters are boring. The best characters are flawed and dysfunctional, IMO, and that goes for every genre.

 

I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

Positive stories which give hope are not necessarily boring. I enjoy reading and writing stories where the character faces challenges and finds ways to overcome them. I won't even bother looking at teen romances. I find them boring and repetitive. The straight best friend, the understanding female, and similar tropes have been done so often I doubt there's anything left to say.

 

I guess I'm a half-full glass guy instead of half-empty. Why would I want to read about angst and sadness? I can hear about it in the news, and would rather focus on uplifting stories.

[Former Member]

5 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

I guess I'm a half-full glass guy instead of half-empty. Why would I want to read about angst and sadness? I can hear about it in the news, and would rather focus on uplifting stories.

But Carlos, you and I are at a very different part of our lives than some who read those angsty stories!  ;–)

[Thorn Wilde]

4 minutes ago, Carlos Hazday said:

 

I wholeheartedly disagree.

 

Positive stories which give hope are not necessarily boring. I enjoy reading and writing stories where the character faces challenges and finds ways to overcome them. I won't even bother looking at teen romances. I find them boring and repetitive. The straight best friend, the understanding female, and similar tropes have been done so often I doubt there's anything left to say.

 

I guess I'm a half-full glass guy instead of half-empty. Why would I want to read about angst and sadness? I can hear about it in the news, and would rather focus on uplifting stories.

 

Not saying they can't have happy endings or anything. Definitely, let there be hope. I just want it to be realistic. And in my experience happy, well-adjusted people are not realistic. We all have issues, we're all flawed. Overcoming challenges is good, it's part of life. But reading about a perfect person inevitably overcoming challenges I just isn't interesting.

 

As for the tropes you mention, I've read (and written) a lot of YA novels and teen romance stories that have none of those things. Make of that what you will.

[Carlos Hazday]

7 minutes ago, droughtquake said:

But Carlos, you and I are at a very different part of our lives than some who read those angsty stories!  ;–)

 

That approach has been pretty constant for me. If I didn't rise above the angsty crap, and look at the future with hope, I would have never accomplished half the stuff I have. There's been plenty of pain, but I try to shove it down and forget it. Again, it's better to remember the triumphs. Defeats are for us to analyze, and not repeat.