Rivers of the Dead - 27. 3-6 - Beneath

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Omg is Orpheus secretly evil? Keeps getting better and better

2 minutes ago, Wesley8890 said:

Omg is Orpheus secretly evil? Keeps getting better and better

I believe Orpheus would be the first to ask, "What is evil?". Or perhaps, is Death evil?

Well. That didn’t go according to plan. At least Ethan knows that Caleb is ok and is searching for him as well.  

Oh. And the shocker, Orpheus is “The Lord Who Rules Beneath”. When did he get the job advancement to “death”. 

I have a bit of an inkling about how this could go now 😉 

thanks. 

1 minute ago, glennish said:

Well. That didn’t go according to plan. At least Ethan knows that Caleb is ok and is searching for him as well.  

Oh. And the shocker, Orpheus is “The Lord Who Rules Beneath”. When did he get the job advancement to “death”. 

I have a bit of an inkling about how this could go now 😉 

thanks. 

You'll have to let me know if you're right once we reach the end. I believe most of the hints are in play already, though there might be a few more to come.

Orpheus makes such a good ruler though, don't you think?

Hmm... Can Ethan do what Orpheus couldn't? Keep the faith and love to persevere even in the face of Death? Maybe that's why Orpheus is so vile. He's jealous of a love stronger than his. To see someone capable of doing what he failed to do. 

5 hours ago, Cynus said:

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So Orpheus is unveiled and revealed for who he is. Ethan was so easily broken, and all The Ruler needed to do was sow just a little doubt. Now Ethan knows real pain, pain undisguised and unmasked by his drive and desire for Caleb. Can Ethan's love regain any of its purity by being so tried by Death itself? You weave such a tale of intrigue and mystic adventure here, and all derived from that simple, foolishly undeclared love...

I'm not a fan of this mean version of Orpheus, I like the charming, guitar playing one better. He certainly burst Ethan's little bubble, didn't he?

Thankfully I see that you've posted the next chapter already so there's no need to wait and see Ethan's reaction because I don't have an idea

what he's going to do next.

On 10/5/2017 at 1:06 PM, Puppilull said:

Hmm... Can Ethan do what Orpheus couldn't? Keep the faith and love to persevere even in the face of Death? Maybe that's why Orpheus is so vile. He's jealous of a love stronger than his. To see someone capable of doing what he failed to do. 

Maybe. I honestly don't entirely know why Orpheus is the way he is. Orpheus was written as a means of understanding myself, and some of the negative feelings I was having towards love at the time of writing this. I've since come to terms with what I was feeling, and I wish I'd understood it better then, because what I was feeling at the time had nothing to do with Chris, whom I loved and still care about deeply, but there were unresolved feelings regarding someone else who had wounded me, and those feelings were making it very difficult for me to fully connect to Chris.

I think in many ways, Orpheus was a reflection of my own self-doubt regarding my inability to fully commit to love. I think this part in particular was probably written from the immense amount of anger I had toward myself, and how that translates to my worldview. Is Orpheus jealous? I'm not sure, but he does definitely see something he doesn't understand, and he knows he's supposed to, and that lack of understanding definitely infuriates him.

On 10/5/2017 at 1:53 PM, Parker Owens said:

 

So Orpheus is unveiled and revealed for who he is. Ethan was so easily broken, and all The Ruler needed to do was sow just a little doubt. Now Ethan knows real pain, pain undisguised and unmasked by his drive and desire for Caleb. Can Ethan's love regain any of its purity by being so tried by Death itself? You weave such a tale of intrigue and mystic adventure here, and all derived from that simple, foolishly undeclared love...

I remember pointing this out to one of my beta readers after they read this part. Someone was asking me how Ethan was so easily defeated. What I was going for here was to show an example of principles of magic in motion. You have the will, pure emotion, and knowledge. Ethan showed up to the fight with all three, and then he was strong, all Orpheus had to do was break down one of these three things. It may seem on the surface that Orpheus was breaking down Ethan's will, but Ethan's will crumbled on its own when Orpheus sabotaged Ethan's emotions. I realize this may have been exactly how you read it, I'm simply trying to elaborate upon the point you made regarding Orpheus sowing seeds of doubt.

So I don't think the question is about Ethan being so easily broken, but rather whether Ethan was ever fully repaired in the first place? You've given me much to think about.

On 10/5/2017 at 2:03 PM, Stephen said:

I'm not a fan of this mean version of Orpheus, I like the charming, guitar playing one better. He certainly burst Ethan's little bubble, didn't he?

Thankfully I see that you've posted the next chapter already so there's no need to wait and see Ethan's reaction because I don't have an idea

what he's going to do next.

There's actually a way for me to defend Orpheus here, but I think it would create too much of an opportunity for a spoiler to the astute observer, so I will have to let that point go for now. However, I would really like to address the point in the future, and so if you remind me I would be glad to bring it up at the end of the story.

For me, Orpheus was a package deal from the beginning. I didn't know exactly where he would take me, but I knew there would be both positive and negative traits, as there usually are when I'm trying to make an imperfect human character. Regardless of what he may be now, he was at least at one point, human.

But yes, he definitely gave Ethan something he was not expecting.

On 10/5/2017 at 2:08 PM, drpaladin said:

Orpheus as the incarnation of Death or Death as the incarnation of Orpheus. It brings on some interesting possibilities. Death should be unpassionate, emotionless, and remorseless. He reveals himself to Ethan as capable of rage and he covets. These are human foibles. There is no question Orpheus is there. Eurydice would not have trailed after him otherwise. By taking on Orpheus, has Death also taken on the same weaknesses? Is this where Eurydice's hint comes into play?

 

I can also see where Caleb would be a bright and attractive light in the afterlife. Bright lights attract beautiful moths, but they also attract beetles with sharp mandibles. Get back that Will and positive emotion Ethan. You're going to need it.

I really like where you're going with this. One of the things I like about pantheistic religion is how it normally involves imperfect gods. Hades, for instance, had many imperfections, many humanlike traits. He loved as humans do, even to the point of obsession when he kidnapped Persephone and brought her down to The Underworld. Death itself, or perhaps the underworld itself, certainly has plenty of that uncompassionate, emotionless, and remorseless quality that you describe. It's in the rivers, the landscape, and in Charon from the Forest Service.

But what of the ruler? Is the ruler the same as the land he/she rules, or is it imperfection trying, as always, to rule a system that was in place since long before there were beings to use it? What we humans try to control is sometimes astounding.

I like your bright light analogy, too. I look forward to further insight from you.

On 10/5/2017 at 7:09 AM, Cynus said:

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I felt that Orpheus had his own agenda. Ethan is no match. However; I wonder with his limited powers... if he screamed for Caleb.

1 hour ago, BlindAmbition said:

I felt that Orpheus had his own agenda. Ethan is no match. However; I wonder with his limited powers... if he screamed for Caleb.

What an intriguing thought... I'll have to ponder that awhile.